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-   -   Problems with my Back Squat II (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4009)

Matthieu Hertilus 03-11-2009 11:38 AM

Problems with my Back Squat II
 
I posted before that my hip flexors hurt whenever I do back squats (and Overhead squats too) and was told to strengthen my hip flexors (thanks again Garrett Smith), but I was wondering if that means I have to completely lay off back squats until I have enough strength in my hip flexors or is there some prehab work I can do right before or between sets of squats. I onl ask because a lot of the WODs call for squatting and Id really love to keep doing them.

One more question that I thought Id fit in instead of adding another thread: is there a specific type of technique with Overhead squats and snatches where your shoulders feel more stable. I feel like I'm pulling them apart everytime I do these exercises.

Thanks for the input and advice. Sorry for the tricky double post

Robert Callahan 03-11-2009 01:49 PM

I am not familiar with your previous thread but a vast majority of the time hip flexor pain is associated with a form break down, mainly letting your knees slide forward at the bottom of the squat.

As for overhead position, you should be actively trying to push the weight up and shrugging your shoulders.

Dave Van Skike 03-11-2009 01:54 PM

I think what's important to think about WRT to tighness and pain stems is that in mnay cases it stems form the muscle being weak and inhibitied in that position so if anything I'd do more squatting or other movements at a load (lighter and for more reps) and in positons that will help the hips get stronger and more flexible.

for instances, if hamstrings are tight ang inhibited in a pull, I'd do RDL's which strenghthen and lengthen the hamstrings.

for my tight hip flexors this means wide stance box squatting or sumo deadlifting.

Brian Lawyer 03-11-2009 02:53 PM

My hip flexors still kill me sometimes although not as much as they used to. For a while I thought it was possibly due to my form. I think I have finally come to the conclusion that it is from sitting at a desk in front of computer 8 hours a day coupled with my 1 hour commute each way, that I am always going to have messed up hip flexors.

I don't think hip flexor strength is my issue. I've got D. Coaching vid of me on here squatting 360lbs x 5 and somehow I just don't think my hip flexors can't keep up. That's like saying your biceps are sore from pullups so you need to work on your curls. That doesn't make sense. I just assume keep working my pullups and watch my bi's grow with my back.

Also, I have read articles that say just the opposite for people who have a desk job. The articles I have read say to work the crap out of all the opposite muscles, i.e. posterior chain, to counteract the effects of sitting all day. They don't say anything about doing more hip flexor work.

Dave Van Skike 03-11-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 52803)
That's like saying your biceps are sore from pullups so you need to work on your curls. That doesn't make sense. I just assume keep working my pullups and watch my bi's grow with my back.

If your pullups were a contested or core lift you might treat them differently. People have used isolation or focus work on their leg flexors for a long time to develop the squat ( glute ham raise, leg curls, band curls, reverse hypers, etc).

There's nothing inherently wrong with curls as a focus for arm flexor weakness.

a lot of SM competititors and HG'er do focused work on the arm flexors.

I also think you're misunderstanding something about tight or painful muscles that Garrett raised originally. A muscle that's is too tight for a given position is inherhently weak in that postion. tighness for a lot of things is joint angle specific.

for instance, I may have plently strong hamstrings in a RDL position but get my legs out wide like a sumo DL or ask them to contract at near complete extension, (pick on an atlas stone) and they start shaking and go weak, and won't allow me to get into position to effect the movement correctly.

...this tightness and inhibition is neurological, it's not just "tight" it is is de facto weakness.

one way to short circuit this tightness in a muscle that's super inhibited when stretching alone won't fix is to work that movement over progresively greater ranges of motion until, for lack of a better word, the muscle is comfortable and able to fire in this "new" position. the interaction between tension and strength is really important.

Kevin Perry 03-11-2009 04:13 PM

for the snatch or OHS, pushing the elbows out turning the wrists outs and actively elevating the shoulders really helps me remain stable.

Brian Lawyer 03-11-2009 07:19 PM

Noted.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike (Post 52805)
If your pullups were a contested or core lift you might treat them differently. People have used isolation or focus work on their leg flexors for a long time to develop the squat ( glute ham raise, leg curls, band curls, reverse hypers, etc).

There's nothing inherently wrong with curls as a focus for arm flexor weakness.

a lot of SM competititors and HG'er do focused work on the arm flexors.

I also think you're misunderstanding something about tight or painful muscles that Garrett raised originally. A muscle that's is too tight for a given position is inherhently weak in that postion. tighness for a lot of things is joint angle specific.

for instance, I may have plently strong hamstrings in a RDL position but get my legs out wide like a sumo DL or ask them to contract at near complete extension, (pick on an atlas stone) and they start shaking and go weak, and won't allow me to get into position to effect the movement correctly.

...this tightness and inhibition is neurological, it's not just "tight" it is is de facto weakness.

one way to short circuit this tightness in a muscle that's super inhibited when stretching alone won't fix is to work that movement over progresively greater ranges of motion until, for lack of a better word, the muscle is comfortable and able to fire in this "new" position. the interaction between tension and strength is really important.



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