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-   -   Mass gain for skinny fat guys (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4079)

Mark Joseph Limbaga 03-25-2009 06:08 PM

Mass gain for skinny fat guys
 
I don't know how many of you guys encountered this but I've encountered this on an almost daily basis so i'm hoping to get some guided knowledge here...

In terms of training, I normally start a skinny-fat guy on SS to build his foundation, which normally gets him stronger and more prepared for the more advanced workouts.

As for eating plans... I'm thinking a standard zone but with carbs being more low GI and protein coming from meat sources along with a protein blend PWO and before bed.

fat coming from plant sources and fish oil.


Any additional comments and input would be most welcome :)

Liam Dougherty Springer 03-25-2009 07:06 PM

Ask them what there goal is if they want to get srong lift heavy if they want to get big eat more if they wnt to get lean..... try to convince them to get big and strong first.

But seriousely someone who is a rank beginer will experience vast positive adaptation with just any regular effort and productive programing. Get them used to showing up and following direction. Then as they gain confidence and ability in the basics, evaluate a priority listing of goals and start knocking them off one at a time don't go for them all at once.

Mark Joseph Limbaga 03-25-2009 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam Dougherty Springer (Post 53729)
Ask them what there goal is if they want to get srong lift heavy if they want to get big eat more if they wnt to get lean..... try to convince them to get big and strong first.

But seriousely someone who is a rank beginer will experience vast positive adaptation with just any regular effort and productive programing. Get them used to showing up and following direction. Then as they gain confidence and ability in the basics, evaluate a priority listing of goals and start knocking them off one at a time don't go for them all at once.

most, if not all of them want to gain size since I'm dealing with guys who are 5'6 and weight a buck twenty to a guy at 6 weighing a buck forty.

I also have another student who is at 150, yet looks like 125 since most of his weight is fat and stored in his belly.

I always always always explain to them that you need to gain size first and build strength, and you can't expect to get big with tiny weights or if you eat like an anorexic girl.

The hardest thing to further explain is since we're living in an Asian country, is not to blame white rice as the main culprit.

Countless times I always have to explain that if white rice is the soul culprit of making someone fat, the highest number of obese people will be living in Asia.

Mostly, the hardest thing to teach people in eating is how to avoid all the fatty, oily and processed food and focus on real, clean food.

Liam Dougherty Springer 03-25-2009 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Joseph Limbaga (Post 53732)
most, if not all of them want to gain size since I'm dealing with guys who are 5'6 and weight a buck twenty to a guy at 6 weighing a buck forty.

I also have another student who is at 150, yet looks like 125 since most of his weight is fat and stored in his belly.

I always always always explain to them that you need to gain size first and build strength, and you can't expect to get big with tiny weights or if you eat like an anorexic girl.

The hardest thing to further explain is since we're living in an Asian country, is not to blame white rice as the main culprit.

Countless times I always have to explain that if white rice is the soul culprit of making someone fat, the highest number of obese people will be living in Asia.

Mostly, the hardest thing to teach people in eating is how to avoid all the fatty, oily and processed food and focus on real, clean food.

Honestly if they don't want to listen your not gonna make them.... but asking them if they want results and asking them why then they wont listen to your methods of helping them receive the results they want:rolleyes: may help build a open communication that will at least get down to the real deal. Maybe down one less client if they arenít reachable.:mad:

If they will listen it can be a lot to give them every thing at once just start with lift heavy and eat meat a lot. Baby steps brother.;)

George Mounce 03-25-2009 08:06 PM

The Zone is horrid for mass gain. Fat should come from ANIMALS, not plant sources. If they want mass gain you have them eat everything in sight and tons of milk. You don't put them on a calorie restrictive diet (Zone) and expect huge mass gains. If you want em to go more Paleo, great, I do that myself, but don't put them on this measuring crap because they won't follow it when their body is trying to produce muscle. They will eat because their body is telling them to do so to build.

Big dudes eat big meals, and they lift big. Lets not make this rocket science because it isn't. SS is great as a starting point. But what are their goals? Why not teach them the lifts (which doesn't require SS), and put them on a mass gain program, you can pick from just about anyone one of them out there. They all have tons of deadlifting, benching, pressing, pull-uping (not a word), and squatting. They need to balance volume and intensity to produce muscle.

You've started a venture that is harder than making a fat person skinny. I wish you luck.

Mike ODonnell 03-25-2009 08:31 PM

Go the old BB route.....lower/moderate carbs off/cardio days....a crap load of carbs pwo....train weights 3x a week with workouts focused on strength and follow up with glycogen depletion/hypertrophy training. The build up of muscle will help to burn the fat on the off/cardio lower carb days.

Of course you might have to force feed some of them, as eating many calories is obviously something they are not used to doing.

If you go the whole milk route my money is on them getting bigger (with more fat).

This is a solid program to start with....just need to adjust calorie loads:
http://lifespotlight.com/fitness/200...fire-fat-loss/

I'm guessing you must not be training in the US.....we have the opposite problem here!

Mark Joseph Limbaga 03-26-2009 07:25 AM

Quote:

Honestly if they don't want to listen your not gonna make them.... but asking them if they want results and asking them why then they wont listen to your methods of helping them receive the results they want may help build a open communication that will at least get down to the real deal. Maybe down one less client if they arenít reachable.
I acutallly had to even show pics of me in my teen years and early 20s at times :D

Its also really hard to keep reminding these guys not to use the scale as a basis of progress.

Quote:

The Zone is horrid for mass gain. Fat should come from ANIMALS, not plant sources. If they want mass gain you have them eat everything in sight and tons of milk. You don't put them on a calorie restrictive diet (Zone) and expect huge mass gains. If you want em to go more Paleo, great, I do that myself, but don't put them on this measuring crap because they won't follow it when their body is trying to produce muscle. They will eat because their body is telling them to do so to build.
Noted. I just have to remind them that they need to build muscle EVERYTIME so they can worry about leaning out later.

I basically tell them if its a plan or animal, its fair game. anything proc essed or any sweets should be kept to a minimum.

Quote:

Go the old BB route.....lower/moderate carbs off/cardio days....a crap load of carbs pwo....train weights 3x a week with workouts focused on strength and follow up with glycogen depletion/hypertrophy training. The build up of muscle will help to burn the fat on the off/cardio lower carb days.
I started a few with SS since a lot of them are really weak. Some could barely even bench the bar when they were starting out.

Once thier strength has shot up a bit, I put them on a 5x5/westside mix to allow enough volume an d heavy lifting to get them stronger while putting on size.

Quote:

I'm guessing you must not be training in the US.....we have the opposite problem here!
Yup I'm in in the US. But, I also have to deal with clents wanting fatloss. I'm just glad I haven'tencountered any 350+ guys yet

Derek Weaver 03-26-2009 09:23 PM

I'm guessing all of these guys are grossly untrained? As in they'd be the example of the guy Rip talks about (hypothetically) where riding a bike will improve the bench or whatever it was (I don't have the book in front of me, but I think it was in PP).

Eat more food than they burn and stick them on a beginning progressive overload program (SS). Once they stall, back 'em off, and go at it again. Stall again and then back 'em off and move to something more intermediate.

Mass gain for untrained newbs is the same as for moderately trained out of shape meatheads, but they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.... lucky.

Steven Low 03-27-2009 05:43 AM

For the skinny fatters it's more important to get them on good quality cals IMO. Raise insulin sensitivity = easier to lean out while gaining mass. I assume that's what MOST of them are looking for... losing fat and gaining muscle.

Eat a crapload... of good food. If possible.

Mark Joseph Limbaga 03-27-2009 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 53826)
For the skinny fatters it's more important to get them on good quality cals IMO. Raise insulin sensitivity = easier to lean out while gaining mass. I assume that's what MOST of them are looking for... losing fat and gaining muscle.

Eat a crapload... of good food. If possible.

Yup thats what am trying to teach them.

I'd rather have them pig out on steaks, sweet potatoes, apples guavas, drink a crapload of milks and protein shakes.

I told most of them to go on a shark diet ( whatever's edibale and fits in your mouth, as long as its good cals is fair game )


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