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-   -   CF Football (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4125)

Gant Grimes 04-03-2009 01:32 PM

CF Football
 
http://www.crossfitfootball.com/

Surprised there's not a thread yet. This has only been out a few days, but I think CF really scored with this one. It will be good for football players (assuming extra conditioning with their teams), grapplers, and GPPers looking for more strength and power (this is better for strength building than CFSB).

I did the workouts the past couple days, and I'm pretty pleased.

It feels similar to what I've been doing. The session consists of a lift or two followed by a heavy metcon. The lifts are classified according to progression. Amateur and collegiate uses a SS/PP set/rep scheme and is tailored to those who are still progressing linearly. The Pro strength RX is mostly heavy OLY stuff and is designed for those who need more advanced periodization. Everyone does the some metcon.

I have done the Pro RX the past two days because I like the heavier OLY stuff.

Grapplers looking to get stronger could get a lot out of this program. Do it four days a week. On two days, sub a FGB-type metcon for the heavier metcon stuff (to get that strength endurance in there). Add in a day or two of roadwork on top of your skill training, and you'll be in pretty good shape.

Kevin Perry 04-03-2009 04:01 PM

Yea it looks pretty good.

George Mounce 04-03-2009 05:31 PM

I'll play devil's advocate.

Let me start out by saying I think the programming is sound as far as GPP goes with a strength focus, I have no argument about that. And yes, it looks very familiar to what Gant came up with almost a year ago now.

Where is the part that makes you better at football though, because I'm not seeing it (or is the argument via the site once again that CF is the only way to get into shape for sports - an overused and incorrect assessment to say the least).

You'd burn a kid out doing this along with practice. National champions have been made without this, so I'm not buying it as the best way for football. The more specialized the position, the more this would actually hurt many of the positions.

Great for off season maybe, but horrid for during the season. One injury and you ruin the team if its a star player.

So my take? Great for the rest of the year...not so great during football, and sorry, you can power clean all you want, but accuracy is improved by throwing, catching...etc..football stuff.

Garrett Smith 04-03-2009 09:33 PM

Football practice and drills should give pretty good GPP, while IMO football players should be lifting heavy in the time they have for the weight room (and doing prehab/rehab as necessary).

The workouts look better than the mainpage (heavier, shorter), but I'd still say it is way too much metcon for football (on top of 2,3,4 hour practices).

Gant, it seems like a great option for programming for hybrid workouts, as you are using it.

Dave Van Skike 04-03-2009 10:39 PM

gant...have you been pulling sumo again? be honest. you're among friends.

Timothy Scalise 04-03-2009 10:51 PM

im going to jump on the band wagon of sorts and say, that in season I think this is too much, but off season I think this is cherry. I do like the nutrition side however, and I think that goes well for all strength athletes IMHO. im a fan of milk and always will be.

Peter Andersen 04-04-2009 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Scalise (Post 54429)
...in season I think this is too much, but off season I think this is cherry..

I noticed a post by John Welbourne on their forums that seems to suggest that they are going to adjust the programming to account for the football season, but will also keep the regular programming available in another section for those people following CFFB who aren't specifically training for football.

Gant Grimes 04-06-2009 09:39 AM

Dave, :) . Your comment was surprisingly appropriate for the situation, as I pulled 495 sumo in the high school weightroom as a skinny 17-year old. Really. We also did trap bar DL and the Kennedy DL. I needed a couple years of therapy to get over that one.

It's of little use to debate the merits of the professional programming since pros are going to do their own thing. At the pro level, it's about avoiding injuries, jail, and suspensions.

College is similar to some extent. Most of these guys have several years of lifting under their belts, even if they have crappy form. They follow whatever program the S&C coach gives them. Some can still make linear progression, and some are set in their ways. At this point, the stars in the weightroom are not necessarily the stars on the field.

So let's talk about the teenager using this program to get better and earn himself a roster spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 54426)
Football practice and drills should give pretty good GPP, while IMO football players should be lifting heavy in the time they have for the weight room (and doing prehab/rehab as necessary).

Drills are good for positional skill/agility and a small amount of SPP.

How is the amateur CFFB program not heavy lifting? It's basically Starting Strength stretched to a 4-day week instead of 3. You have time for a proper warmup, two heavy lifts and a short heavy metcon. Compare this to what many high school do: try to combine bench, incline, squat, leg press, bear, power cleans, and deadlifts into ONE HOUR (usually 3x8-10 reps). I vote for the former.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 54426)
The workouts look better than the mainpage (heavier, shorter), but I'd still say it is way too much metcon for football (on top of 2,3,4 hour practices).

I don't know if you've kept up with it, but high school kids are already doing lots of off-season metcon. They're flipping tires, doing farmer's carries, swinging the sledge, doing fingle fingers, etc. It's basically strongman stuff. My buddy runs this competition in the summer:
http://www.thelinemanchallenge.com/Events.html

This is what linemen do when backs and receivers are doing 7-on-7. They'll cut the metcons down in pre-season and out during the season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Mounce (Post 54412)
Where is the part that makes you better at football though, because I'm not seeing it (or is the argument via the site once again that CF is the only way to get into shape for sports - an overused and incorrect assessment to say the least).

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Mounce (Post 54412)
you can power clean all you want, but accuracy is improved by throwing, catching...etc..football stuff.

You keep coming back to this. Where do you get that practice is being taken away? This is an off-season strength and GPP program. It will change in pre-season and in-season. Coaches will still practice and still condition their team with wind sprints and pursuits during the season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Mounce (Post 54412)
The more specialized the position, the more this would actually hurt many of the positions.

Kickers and punters aside, what teenager won't benefit from squatting, pressing, deadlifting, cleaning, and short metcons?

Maybe Josh E. can chime in with what he's doing.

Dave Van Skike 04-06-2009 12:01 PM

That's a compelling analysis. I'm just confused as to why it's called crossfit football when what you just described is really just non retarded GPP.....

that has a ring to it...is Non-retarded GPP taken or can I use that?

Kevin Perry 04-06-2009 12:07 PM

I think it's yours for the taking Dave


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