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-   -   olympic clean and PRESS prior 1972 (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4252)

Torsten Hauptmann 04-30-2009 05:04 AM

olympic clean and PRESS prior 1972
 
I would like to know if anyone if you knows how to perform the olympic press as shown here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7erVblY7aiU (w/f/s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJrYPVJ88M (w/f/s)

I think the olympic press does far more emphasis core -stability, -strength, -ROM, -power and -speed compared to the rather static stability needed in the squat, DL or normal press esp. when looking over to gymnasitcs for core stability/ROM standards.

So i am really interessted in a guide for the press but when your intention is to argue about the value of the olympic press or just tell me that the olympic press is in nature a "standing bench press" or something else which does not enlighten the execution of that lift it would be very plesant if you read the thread i started a while ago in the CF main forum. i had the intent to discuss the proper execution of the olympic press but it started out to be about the (non)value of the olympic press thus a lot of things have been said in this regards and i strongly encurage you to read the old thread on the CF forum first to aviod accidental double posting.

Thread on the CF forum:

http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=44552 (w/f/s)

Brian DeGennaro 04-30-2009 06:18 AM

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/01...ill-starr.html
http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/01...ill-starr.html

Bill Starr will go over the form in those two articles.

I know you don't want to hear an argument against the press but here is one related to WL'ing training.

The reason why, besides politically, that weightlifters don't include the press anymore in training is that it becomes counterproductive to the lifts. Once the press was dropped, snatch and clean & jerk records skyrocketed. After certain strength increases you reach the point of diminishing returns, just like in squats.

Torsten Hauptmann 04-30-2009 08:57 AM

nice post brian, thanks!!

could you please tell me why it becomes counterproductive to the lifts? i think it is the right place here because it does deal with the lift in interference with the other lifts. is it because its execution does confuse the other lifts mentally?

Dave Van Skike 04-30-2009 09:09 AM

what sucks is that they ever got rid of the press in the first place...it's an entertaining lift to watch doesn well and seemingly open to more potetial styles..also to the layperson, a super impressive.

Brian DeGennaro 04-30-2009 09:50 AM

Like I said, you reach the point of diminishing returns quickly as you work strength with Oly lifting. Weightlifters want to train for explosiveness, which the press lacks completely. The jerk takes a fraction of a second to complete while a press takes several seconds to complete, especially at heavier weights. This longer time under tension is going to train a different motor pattern than the quick, explosive jerk. This simultaneous of a slower motor pattern with a faster one is going to screw up the jerk more than the press. The body won't know how to move as quickly in the jerk as a result of training heavy presses.

Dave Van Skike 04-30-2009 10:09 AM

I only see a modest bump in progress in the clean and jerk for super heavies in the 1980's (drugs are bad, mmmkay?) Across the weight classes it looks like pretty linear progress since the early 1960's, so I don't get that the removal of the press as being this huge boon to the Jerk.

it would make some sense in the lower weigth classes becuase the press requires a pretty big upper body and all things beign equal, without the press in play, one could devote more of the body's overall weight distribution to the hip and leg.

if you can't tell, i think the press should come back. I think the jerk is boring, the snatch is graceful and sublime, the clean and press is just awesome. I'd even consider training Oly if it was set up like that..

.oh well. is what it is...

glennpendlay 04-30-2009 10:16 PM

There wasnt really any explosion of results in the other lifts after the dropping of the press, and what there was was not really for that reason. Lots of advances were happening around the same time.

The press was dropped because of judging problems. Hard to judge when you have allowed the rules to be broken for years. hard to draw a line.

glenn

Torsten Hauptmann 05-01-2009 08:10 AM

very enlightening thread - at least for me.
does anyone have other guides about the press? that one from bill starr is fine but it merely describes the lift in some detail and does not offer progressions

glennpendlay 05-01-2009 09:08 AM

I would suggest you contact someone who actually was active and trained the press back when it was a competitive lift.

I will PM you Joe Dube's email address. He was a great, world class presser back in the late 60's and early 70's. Im sure if you emailed him he would be happy to talk to you about how he and others trained the press back then.

glenn

Yuen Sohn 05-01-2009 09:39 AM

I've read (maybe on GoHeavy or Weightlifting Exchange) that the elimination of the press has led to an increase in elbow injuries, at least in athletes at a higher level. Glenn, or anyone else: any thoughts on this?

At my stage (about 3 years into learning the quick lifts and still needing quite a bit of strength to build), I'm often told never to give up an opportunity to press...strict and/or push.

Anyway, back to the original poster's question: There are a few coaches/competitors I run into every once in a while (one of whom was an absolute masterful presser back in the days). If I get a chance, I will ask them for their thoughts and advice on the movement and report back.


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