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-   -   Mass - Texas Method (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4501)

james forshaw 07-15-2009 11:13 AM

Mass - Texas Method
 
Is TM a good way for someone with slow lifts in and around the "advanced" category to gain lean mass? My main concern is that, as opposed to SS, there is only one day per week where a lot of volume is done.

Would some extra heavy clean pulls/clean shrugs, front/back squats on the intensity day be a good idea, or do you think it'd just interfere with how TM works? Or (as my gut is suggesting) should I just leave it as it is and do the programme? I know exactly what it takes nutritionwise, so no problems on that front.

Dave Van Skike 07-15-2009 12:03 PM

did you read the Rip's book or are you going off of soem web based write up?

By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit. By the time you're advanced they've virtually stopped unless you were starving yourself for a weight class or are piggin your way out of one.

Harry Munro 07-15-2009 12:30 PM

TM works, well - one volume day a week is enough for an intermediate lifter to make progress. Buy practical programming.

james forshaw 07-16-2009 10:15 AM

Quote:

did you read the Rip's book or are you going off of soem web based write up?

By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit. By the time you're advanced they've virtually stopped unless you were starving yourself for a weight class or are piggin your way out of one.
My info came from the SS wiki, and various sources including Stronglifts.com. I've done TM (recently) and worked up to a 160kg high bar squat (A2G), 95kg push press and 110kg clean whilst eating to maintain a bodyweight of 77kg. I don't think I need to buy PP as the idea of TM is simple to understand, and I know it works. It has worked for strength gains - but will it put mass on a high intermediate/advanced lifter?

I may be mistaken, but when you wrote:

Quote:

By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit
I didn't actually mean 'mass gains' to mean large gains in strength. I mean actual gains in body mass.

Gant Grimes 07-16-2009 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james forshaw (Post 60228)
I don't think I need to buy PP as the idea of TM is simple to understand, and I know it works. It has worked for strength gains - but will it put mass on a high intermediate/advanced lifter?

You are getting some concepts confused. In a programming context, novice/intermediate/advanced are concern stimulus:adaptation, not how much weight you can lift.

The value of a program goes beyond what is scribbled on a piece of paper. If, as you say, you understood the program and understood your nutrition, then you wouldn't be asking this question.

Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?

Steven Low 07-16-2009 10:57 AM

Gant's correct. "How much weight you can lift" is just a fairly indirect method (and sometimes inaccurate way) of analyzing what level of ability you are at. Programming at various levels of "strength" concerns with stimulating certain adaptations through progressive overload. For novice/intermed/advanced/elite the progressive overload will be different based on the workouts because as you get stronger/bigger you encounter diminishing returns.

Someone who has naturally good genetics/recovery, diet, and can put max intensity in their sessions may have a larger "novice" period than someone who has a crappy diet, poor genetics, and has problems with intensity.

You need information to determine where someone goes from what they are currently.... of course dependent on goals.

Quote:

Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?
Answer these and we'll be able to help. Assuming your goals are gaining mass and strength, yes?

james forshaw 07-16-2009 11:13 AM

Quote:

You are getting some concepts confused. In a programming context, novice/intermediate/advanced are concern stimulus:adaptation, not how much weight you can lift.

The value of a program goes beyond what is scribbled on a piece of paper. If, as you say, you understood the program and understood your nutrition, then you wouldn't be asking this question.

Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?
I've always taken n/i/a to refer to the weightlifting standards - the table of bodyweight categories and the corresponding poundages you need to lift. Surely you can't blag your way to being advanced by that table, you can't get there by messing about.

I do understand nutrition Gant, and 77kg is where I've been for about 3 years (intentionally) whether doing Crossfit, your strength hybrid routine (awesome btw) or Texas Method. Tailored protein blocks, few carbs from f&v and enough fat for the remaining calories - no problems there. Mass gain is new territory for me though, and why I need advice.
History is this: age 18, I blindly ate loads of tuna pasta and drank even more whey, did sets of 12-8 and went up to around 75kg from god knows what (probably 70kg). Age 19, found Crossfit, age 20 discovered why nutrition was important and for the last 3 years pretty much stayed at 77kg via zone diet and more recently Robb Wolf's 42ways. Most of my "mass gain" was probably just the end of my normal growth from a boy into a man.

From 3 years(ish) CF training and stuff resembling your hybrid routine, I had a 140kg squat, 180kg deadlift, 100kg clean, 70kg press - not to mention about five sub-3 minute Frans (a very small example of metcon ability, granted). Texas Method earlier this year (5 or 6 weeks) everything increased to 160, 190, 110, 75 respectively. Is this enough to answer the question of where I am?

The only reason I'm asking is because TM is a very fun programme to do. It motivates me long-term (something I've had problems with recently), and I have very recent, first-hand experience that it increases strength very tangeably. If I can put on weight, then I'd love to do it this way. If not, then it'll have to be another programme.

james forshaw 07-16-2009 11:20 AM

Sorry Steven, you replied as I was writing.

Bodycomp isn't as sharp as it could be right now, but still "good" by any standard. I only ever go by the scale and how I feel looking in the mirror - about 8-9% bodyfat at the moment. I've flirted with 5ish% before but maintaining it is not worth the effort and performance suffers badly.

Goals, you're quite right, are mass and strength. 83-85kg, somewhere like that. I will obviously want to lose fat once there, but that's thinking too far ahead - concerned only with the first two now.

Gavin Harrison 07-16-2009 12:29 PM

Mass Gain = get stronger + eat more protein and calories.

Variations on that theme are all that exist, I think.

Jon Sikes 07-16-2009 05:07 PM

Fun with meaningless numbers
 
This article by Lyle McDonald will give you an idea of how much mass you'll be able to put on and how long it will take.

This site (linked within that article) can be a fun diversion:

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html


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