Catalyst Athletics Forums

Catalyst Athletics Forums (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/index.php)
-   Combat Sports (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   My two passions; O'Lifts + MMA (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4880)

Brian Lawyer 12-03-2009 12:41 PM

My two passions; O'Lifts + MMA
 
Hey Guys,
I've been on CA for a while now and never bothered to check out the Fighting section. Looks like a good group of guys in here with the same interests as me; O'Lifting and MMA training. I've been really into O'lifting for the past year. I haven't done much MMA training since 2001 but recently have been getting back into it.

From reading through the recent posts, it appears many others are attempting to figure out how they can integrate a program to do both O'lifts and MMA. Has anyone been successful? They seem to be so different sports. Huge difference when doing max effort lifts 80-95% and resting 2-3 minutes between sets versus the rigors of MMA training. Not too mention the demands on your body from going from heavy olympic lifts to grappling training.

Take a look at my training log, the link is in my signature. I have some video where I tried to go from an Olympic lifting competition one weekend to MMA the next weekend. All I can say now is that I am a believer in metabolic conditioning... Also, I don't see how you could stay competetive in both sports. It seems like one would have to choose one or the other....

Brian Lawyer 12-03-2009 12:49 PM

Side bar - I have been looking for a good instructional (book or DVD) with sport specific conditioning and exercises for MMA. I am referring to the below listed type of exercises that I always see them doing on either TUF or one of my MMA coaches usually makes up stuff. Has anyone ever bothered to catalog these exercises. Victory belt books are great encyclopedias on technique but I suggest putting out a book on conditioning/strength exercises and breaking into categories (i.e. these group of exercises help grappling, this sectioin for standup, etc.)

Here are some examples of the type of exercises I was thinking of:
1. Sprawling on medicine balls (partner rolls med ball to you),
2. Crawling on hands and feet without letting there bodies touch the ground but touching elbows to knees.
3. Various circuits.
4. sprawl, standup, partner throws med ball at you, catch it, and then sprawl again.

Those are best I could come up with off top of my head but you should get the idea. Does anyone catalog these somewhere....

Grissim Connery 12-04-2009 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 66202)
Also, I don't see how you could stay competetive in both sports. It seems like one would have to choose one or the other....

i think that most individuals in this world aren't very competitive at multiple sports in general. in highschool maybe, but after that not so much. i'd like to be better at gymnastics personally, but that's always going to take second stage to grappling. therefore i'm not "competitive" with gymnastics. i feel that striving to be competitive will most likely reduce your potential in either category from strictly a time perspective. that is unless you cut out social/family life.

from a body recovery perspective, i don't squat that much anymore. i find that upper body work generally doesn't impair my grappling and such the next day. on the other hand, playing any form of the guard with sore legs is not good times. i feel that jumping and pistols maintain most of my strength needs in my legs. i generally do more power cleans now to avoid excess squatting, although i find that if i do squat, doing it out of a clean is preferable since it's mostly a concentric effort with less resultant soreness. thus, because i dont' squat very often, i would never expect my numbers on snatch and C&J to be particularly impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 66203)
Side bar - I have been looking for a good instructional (book or DVD) with sport specific conditioning and exercises for MMA.

scott sonnon's stuff is pretty good. here's some exercises i like:
1. quarter getups with a KB
2. boat type work (helps butterfly guard)
3. QDR's (helps free legs and balance with upper body)
4. ring work (since i ever started rings, my forearms seldom get burnt out during competitions)
5. parkour crawls
6. deck squats
7. while walking with my hands, keeping my body rigid, and putting an upside down frisbee under my feet to let them slide, i hand walk in forward planks, l-sits, manna-ish planks (belly button faces up, hands go behind), straddle walks (2 frisbees needed)
8. handstand work
9. muscle-ups - strictly for the benefits to the false grip. the way you cock your hand in the false grip has applications towards grappling.
ex) gable grip, then cock your wrists like a false grip. if you do it right, you'll notice how much sturdier the grip is
ex2) when you arm drag, cock your hand in the false grip when you wrap his upper arm. the heel of your hand/outer blade of your arm should hook on to his tricep pretty well, thus eliminating the need for fingers really.
10. ball balancing - roll all over that bitch. it's fun. try to roll from knees all the way over shoulders without falling off. do this for a while and you'll get pretty tired. i don't find standing on the ball helps much for fighting, but people will be impressed if you do it.
11. i'm gonna reiterate deck squats. i thought about it more and realized how applicable that motion is.

that's some stuff i can think of now. you already mentioned you OL, so the hips snap should be well ingrained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 66203)
2. Crawling on hands and feet without letting there bodies touch the ground but touching elbows to knees.

that's the jacare. ronaldo jacare does it because "jacare" means crocodile (or alligator?) in portugese. when you look at the motion, it's similar to how a crocodile walks. it's also a bitch to teach people in the beginning.

Brian Lawyer 12-04-2009 06:26 AM

Thanks Grissim. Those were the types of exercises I had in mind. Things I could tack on in a circuit or something after training BJJ or Sparring. I wasn't sure if someone had bothered to write them out in a book or dvd. I was looking at Scott Sonnin's materials the other day but they were kind of pricey. I also wasn't sure if Ross had those type of exercises in his book. Ross's books have been on my wish list for a while now.

Brian Lawyer 12-04-2009 09:10 AM

Hey Grissim, I found this today, Ultimate MMA Conditioning, http://www.8weeksout.com/. Have you ever heard of this JJ guy?

Brian Lawyer 12-04-2009 11:05 AM

Another resource I came across that I wouldn't mind your opinion on, http://www.dieselcrew.com/mma-manual-re-released/

Whoever these diesal crew guys are, they teach a legitimate squat; http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-squat/

Derek Simonds 12-04-2009 12:41 PM

The Diesel Crew is legit. Smitty is an online aquaintance and a solid guy. He trained Tom Lawlor for his time on TUF. Tom now has an MMA school here in Orlando with Seth Petruzelli. Here is some of the training that they did.

http://www.dieselcrew.com/forums/showthread.php?t=383

You really can't go wrong with any of the Diesel stuff.

Donald Lee 12-04-2009 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 66268)
Another resource I came across that I wouldn't mind your opinion on, http://www.dieselcrew.com/mma-manual-re-released/

Whoever these diesal crew guys are, they teach a legitimate squat; http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-squat/

The only problem with Diesel Crew is that you might fall into the variety for the sake of variety trap. They have a ton of exercise variations in their products, but their stuff is usually solid.

Donald Lee 12-04-2009 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 66263)
Hey Grissim, I found this today, Ultimate MMA Conditioning, http://www.8weeksout.com/. Have you ever heard of this JJ guy?

Joel is trying to bring back the emphasis from lactic training (i.e., metcons) to a more meaningful approach. The MMA world seems to have ditched the road work, when it is so important in MMA. Contrary to popular opinion, MMA is mostly alactic and aerobic without much being lactic. Plus, the lactic energy system cannot be improved much, and lactic adaptations interfere with aerobic adaptations.

Grissim Connery 12-05-2009 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Lee (Post 66302)
Joel is trying to bring back the emphasis from lactic training (i.e., metcons) to a more meaningful approach. The MMA world seems to have ditched the road work, when it is so important in MMA. Contrary to popular opinion, MMA is mostly alactic and aerobic without much being lactic. Plus, the lactic energy system cannot be improved much, and lactic adaptations interfere with aerobic adaptations.

a part of me would have to agree with the alactic concept you mention. the shear fact being that when i'm rolling, i'm never trying to feel a burn or get tired. normally whenever i feel this at all, it probably means i'm about to get my ass ripped apart because i'm trying to muscle stuff. the only instance it would seem necessary to drive into fatigue is if the opponent is hurt and so close to a knockout. in grappling, this won't happen, so i don't really deal with that.

The diesel crew stuff looks pretty intense. i'd have to agree that there's a hell of a lot of variety they offer, but i'd see it more as opportunity. in essence, you can pick a few of their many choices that you actually enjoy doing. i personally would probably like the sandbags, but skip the keg work (unless they did handstands on the kegs in intervals. that might be cool). i see the lunge and sled dragging training as more of a wrestler bias, so if you have that background then maybe you'd like that. i'm more of a thrower, so i'd pick more pulls and rotations (maybe side cleans with a KB).

IMO the real value of sport specific exercises are to understand how to properly generate force in that instance. for example, i mentioned that quarter getups with a KB are nice. the reason being that these will teach you how to escape side control very well. since escaping side control is a modified stand-up in base (imaging standing up in base but instead of putting your bottom arm's hand on the ground, you put your shoulder down) the same principles that can make it work and break it apply. if your bottom leg cannot travel beneath you, then you cannot standup in base. if your top shoulder cannot travel forward, then you cannot stand up in base. thefore, we can challenge each of these 2 areas to help understand how to deal with an opponent pressuring them. the quarter getup adds tremendous resistance to the top shoulder. therefore it is difficult to just move it foward. instead, we must move around it. dont' think about pushing the weight up, but instead think of adjusting your body beneath the weight until you have such a stable frame that the weight cannot break you down. it's possible to analyze the hell out of this, but i'll save it for the scope of this forum.

you can also metcon these if you really want. i used to do it a lot. it's relatively safe and very engaging. i would tabata it so that i could have ample time to switch sides.

on the 8weeks out site, they looked fine, but they used 2 types of ladder climbing machines. the one that really looks like a ladder is kinda cool. the one that's like a post with handles sticking out just looks silly to me. they use that at one club i've trained at, and it drives me crazy everytime. just use a damn jump rope. simplicity is always better.

i don't know if i mentioned this before, but sledge hammers and tires are a favorite exercise of mine now. i find that it's hard to mimic the slamball feeling sometimes, but this exercise does it well. this has applications towards snap downs and what not. i find that when you get into it, most of the actual strength required to perform it is just a wrist snap. getting the weight up in the air is just a back swing, windmill motion. the wrist snap comes in laying it down into the tire.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.