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-   -   Gaining Strength on Keto...help. (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5462)

Daniel Bethencourt 05-24-2010 09:59 PM

Gaining Strength on Keto...help.
 
I'm one week into getting fat-adapted while eating paleo a la Mat Lalonde, and I'm trying to get strength and mass but with an obvious (apparently goal-compromising) health focus to it. I accept that not doing GOMAD means anything from mass gain failure to pathetic failure as a human being, but everything I've researched seems to show that becoming fat-adapted has awesome benefits once the adjustment is over. I accept that I won't gain 40 pounds--I just really want to deadlift at least 300 and look better for it.

The only problem is that naturally, my lifts suck during the adjustment. I've been doing Starting Strength for a month, but looking at my numbers I know I'd get slapped with a YNDTP sticker. Now forward progress seems unrealistic--but if Starting Strength is built around enormous amounts of fuel, and inherently fast but dirty gains, I'm worried I should be toning down the volume. 3x3 starting strength? Pavel's Power to the People 3 days a week, with 3 sets of 5,3,2 kind of deal (but with OH Press and no crazy side press)?

I'm also considering doing cyclic low-carb Anabolic Diet deal--and I'm feeling like at this point if you're not rolling your eyes at something I've said so far, you must be really really new.

I've spent the last two months trying to get stronger and healthier and I don't feel like I've come out too much better for it, just a little fatter and with some slightly better numbers.

I'm going to college in September and I need to stick to something that makes sense, even if I can't down a gallon of milk a day, even if it means I won't be shopping for bigger T-shirts before my first quarter ends.

I'm 18, 188 13%BF. Swimming background.

Blessed is the person who actually makes it through this post.

Thank you for your time,
Dan

Derek Weaver 05-24-2010 10:22 PM

A) Keto is fine, but not for gaining, or being athletic. Health, sure, I guess. I'd prefer to induce periods of ketosis through intermittent fasting myself, but to each his own.

B) You're 18, 188 lbs, 13%bf. Good start. But what is your height?

C) I am in no way encouraging a minor to do partake in any substances not yet legally available to him or her, but you do realize that there are certainly things in college far more hazardous to your health than milk right?

D) You should be able to deadlift more than 300 lbs. Find a way to get with a decent coach for a couple sessions and I'd bet you already can.

E) I don't know where you're going to head off to for school, but the great thing about college towns is that they've usually got plenty of mexican restaurants and taco shops. Whatever the biggest burrito they have, get one 3-7 days per week as budget allows. That'll jack up your calories plenty.

Daniel Bethencourt 05-24-2010 11:03 PM

Damnit I knew I forgot something--6'2". And for the milk, I was referring to the limited dining hall access, no fridge etc.

Maybe I can do 300 lbs right now--this is with the bar 9" off the ground? Sadly I have lots of 35lbs and no 45s, so I've been pulling from ~7"...I'd hate to blame that for much. My back rounds slightly at 230. I'd love to think that it's merely technique...I've read SS but also tried Pavel's method for setting up in the deadlift (bending over before and lowering into it ready to go). That seemed to help, but not beyond 230.

Donald Lee 05-25-2010 04:53 AM

You should probably post up videos of your technique on the lifts at some point, whether that be some time soon or once you get to school.

Most people tend to get fat in college, especially initially. In my school, they called it the "freshman 15". Dining hall food is calorie dense, especially in the fat department. You may have trouble eating enough protein though, in which case it would probably be cheapest to purchase a milk isolate or why/casein mix from www.trueprotein.com.

It seems like you want to gain muscle at a reasonable pace (AKA. not get too fat). You could do alternating periods of bulking and cutting, but I think a good option for you would be to eat a lot for the 24 hour period around your workout and eat at a normal level (maintenance) for the other 24 hour period or weekends if you don't workout during those days. Pre-workout nutrition is important, especially when trying to gain weight, so you should probably eat something before working out.

Derek Weaver 05-25-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Lee (Post 76330)
You should probably post up videos of your technique on the lifts at some point, whether that be some time soon or once you get to school.

Most people tend to get fat in college, especially initially. In my school, they called it the "freshman 15". Dining hall food is calorie dense, especially in the fat department. You may have trouble eating enough protein though, in which case it would probably be cheapest to purchase a milk isolate or why/casein mix from www.trueprotein.com.

It seems like you want to gain muscle at a reasonable pace (AKA. not get too fat). You could do alternating periods of bulking and cutting, but I think a good option for you would be to eat a lot for the 24 hour period around your workout and eat at a normal level (maintenance) for the other 24 hour period or weekends if you don't workout during those days. Pre-workout nutrition is important, especially when trying to gain weight, so you should probably eat something before working out.

Every colleges calls it the freshman 15. Sometimes the freshman 40. Good advice though. No reflection on the op and I certainly mean no offence, but keto and bulking is painfully ineffective.

Garrett Smith 05-25-2010 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Weaver (Post 76348)
Every colleges calls it the freshman 15. Sometimes the freshman 40. Good advice though. No reflection on the op and I certainly mean no offence, but keto and bulking is painfully ineffective.

No carbs = no insulin = no use of one of the body's most anabolic agents.

Dave Van Skike 05-25-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Bethencourt (Post 76324)
I'm one week into getting fat-adapted while eating paleo a la Mat Lalonde, and I'm trying to get strength and mass but with an obvious (apparently goal-compromising) health focus to it. I accept that not doing GOMAD means anything from mass gain failure to pathetic failure as a human being, but everything I've researched seems to show that becoming fat-adapted has awesome benefits once the adjustment is over. I accept that I won't gain 40 pounds--I just really want to deadlift at least 300 and look better for it.

The only problem is that naturally, my lifts suck during the adjustment. I've been doing Starting Strength for a month, but looking at my numbers I know I'd get slapped with a YNDTP sticker. Now forward progress seems unrealistic--but if Starting Strength is built around enormous amounts of fuel, and inherently fast but dirty gains, I'm worried I should be toning down the volume. 3x3 starting strength? Pavel's Power to the People 3 days a week, with 3 sets of 5,3,2 kind of deal (but with OH Press and no crazy side press)?

I'm also considering doing cyclic low-carb Anabolic Diet deal--and I'm feeling like at this point if you're not rolling your eyes at something I've said so far, you must be really really new.

I've spent the last two months trying to get stronger and healthier and I don't feel like I've come out too much better for it, just a little fatter and with some slightly better numbers.

I'm going to college in September and I need to stick to something that makes sense, even if I can't down a gallon of milk a day, even if it means I won't be shopping for bigger T-shirts before my first quarter ends.

I'm 18, 188 13%BF. Swimming background.

Blessed is the person who actually makes it through this post.

Thank you for your time,
Dan

Dan. Don't sweat the mass gain thing. Plenty of people have gotten stronger on a ketogenci diet. You won't likely get bigger..but who cares? you set your priority in the first paragraph. get stronger. this is an easy thing to measure.

Derek Weaver 05-25-2010 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 76366)
No carbs = no insulin = no use of one of the body's most anabolic agents.

Exactly. Controlling insulin = good. Avoiding insulin = retarded.

Daniel Bethencourt 05-26-2010 05:06 PM

Before you label me retarded for avoiding insulin, I hope everyone saw that I'm doing an Anabolic Diet - style cycle...not avoiding insulin, just trying to make the best use of it while understanding that excess carbohydrate can really screw with your health...though I fully understood that asking a Mass Gain section of the forum about help with ketosis may not make me many friends...(thus a thank you to Dave for saying "don't sweat the mass gain thing" in a forum labeled Mass Gain)

Any thoughts on whether I should adjust my training? I can't seem to make much progress while adjusting, but I'm guessing the Starting Strength 5lb-deal should be left more or less unchanged? Maybe 3x3?

Dave Van Skike 05-26-2010 05:13 PM

dan,

changing one thing at a time is always good advice. i've tried a similar thing. first thing i noticed was i had to reduce total volume and reps but that i could easily up the frequency. then after the high carb days (i think these are meant to be called cheat days but for me it was a total meltdown) I would go totally apeshit and do an epic events day. the day after the "epic events day", i felt very tired and sad.. i then would go back to low volume, low reps until the next meltdown. it was actually kind of functional. i did not gain mass.


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