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Jonathan Silverman 08-07-2010 09:59 PM

Reading Supertraining-- Help.
 
"It is also important to note research by Vredensky which has shown that maximum strength us produced for an optimum, not a maximum frequency of nerve firing. furthermore the optimal frequency changes with level of muscle fatigue."
pg 33.


What does this mean??

Donald Lee 08-07-2010 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Silverman (Post 79105)
"It is also important to note research by Vredensky which has shown that maximum strength us produced for an optimum, not a maximum frequency of nerve firing. furthermore the optimal frequency changes with level of muscle fatigue."
pg 33.


What does this mean??

I don't have the book here where I'm currently living. Could you provide more of the quote...the before and after, and name the section?

Gant Grimes 08-09-2010 02:50 PM

You're better off doing 5x5 squats than by reading Supertraining. That's the conclusion I came to quickly.

Craig Brown 08-09-2010 03:59 PM

I'm with Gant. I have it, I've read pieces, but it just isn't very relevant to me actually doing the work and getting stronger.

Will Peterson 08-14-2010 08:26 AM

What version of Super Training are you reading. I was looking to put the quote in context, but I have the 4th ed (not the most current).

If I had to guess based on your quote, it would have to do with muscle fiber recruitment. Top level strength athletes can recruit more muscle fibers due to their years of training and development. Everyone will recruit more under certain strain and levels of fatigue. This is a pretty simplistic answer, but I'd like to re-read the chapter/ context of the quote before going into more detail.

Siff and Verkhoshansky were both men of science who brought much to the sport of weightlifting. Supertraining is well worth the effort, but you need a reasonable foundation before it really clicks. Much of the writing and translations of Yessis are a good place to start for an overview of Russian/ Soviet training.

Emily Mattes 08-20-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Silverman (Post 79105)
"It is also important to note research by Vredensky which has shown that maximum strength us produced for an optimum, not a maximum frequency of nerve firing. furthermore the optimal frequency changes with level of muscle fatigue."
pg 33.


"At maximal efforts, studies have shown only the necessary number of nerves will fire, not the total number of nerves that can fire. The number of nerves necessary to fire to produce a given movement will depend on how tired the muscles are."

That is, say you have 100 nerves that could fire to produce a given movement. But to produce your 1RM, you may not need 100, you may only need 70, so only 70 will fire (i.e. your body doesn't fire nerves it doesn't need to, i.e. your body is efficient). Furthermore, if your muscles are tired, than that number will change--fresh, you may only need 70, tired, you may need 50, 60, or 80 to produce the same maximal effort. I'm guessing Siff will go on to say whether the optimal number of nerves increases or decreases depending on muscle fatigue.

(I don't have Supertraining, so it's all conjecture on my part.)

Jay Ashman 08-25-2010 07:30 PM

as much as I respect and love the Russian texts... they really know how to overthink training.

Its simple... train hard for a short period of time, rest... train hard again, back off, train hard, back off...

get faster by getting stronger, working on mechanics and making sure those hip flexors are firing all sorts of nice...

As much as the Russian texts have revolutionized training, some people use them as a bible and really make shit complicated.

Will Peterson 08-30-2010 06:05 PM

For workouts and training yourself, I think that you are correct. Look to the writings of Pavel Tsatsouline who has taken most of the Russian ideas and put them into a writing style that is very easy to understand.

There does not exist any sorce that should be taken without question. For a coach looking to structure the programing of a developing athlete, there is still a lot to be mined out of Roman, Verhoshansky, and others. Siff as well -- though he is a South African.


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