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-   -   Undertrained Legs with Mass Gain? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573)

Jeff_Dale 02-23-2007 07:21 PM

Undertrained Legs with Mass Gain?
 
I'm in my 3rd week of the Hypertrophy phase Mass Gain program.
There seems to be limited leg stimulus, this could be because my max clean is weak(155lbs), and the front squats are based off of the clean. I did increase the % to 70% starting out because it felt too light at 60%.

What is the reason behind only having squats 1 day a week? I can understand only doing deadlifts once a week, but why is only lifting 60% of max clean 6x6, once a week ideal for the growth phase?

Perhaps I should have increased the % higher?? It's not supposed to be max effort though...

Steve Shafley 02-23-2007 08:59 PM

This could very well be where your particular situation and the Unholy Mass Gain Program (UMGP) diverges.

Jeff_Dale 02-24-2007 02:37 PM

Just looking for guidance on how to set up my next hypertrophy phase and some understanding as to why the program is set up the way it is for squats, compared to a heavier 5x5 program. :)

Mike ODonnell 02-24-2007 03:28 PM

My legs grow better on a 5x10 program...but thats just me.

Robb Wolf 02-24-2007 03:32 PM

Jeff!
The idea with this is to progressively overload AND ratchet up caloric intake synergisticly. With this in mind we set the programming up to be relatively easy up front to allow for some momentum to be generated. That is one element of the program. Another element of the program is simply getting stronger seems to be the best correlate with increasing muscle gain, especially if nutritional status is adequate. With this in mind the alternating mesocycles involve enough work in the hypertrophy phase to stimulate growth, and enough neural work in the strength cycles to improve recruitment and come back stronger on the next hypertrophy go-around.

Now in your case it may be smart to shift to 60% of your front/back squat as necessary. As the Late JV Askem wrote "Nothing is written in stone!"
In fact here is a great 5x5 article from JV:
http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/5X5.htm

That is phenomenal piece with simple progressions that are really the key to get from intermediate towards advanced with regards to strength and muscle gain.

If you notice in the 5x5 piecee a light weight(60%RM), moved quickly, can and will provide a nice growth stimulus.

So, as far as what to do...what is your current 1RM front squat? If it is significantly higher than your clean (assuming good form, depth etc) then by all means, use that for your 60% guide. Then make that weight move fast, progress as per the Mass Gain guide, eat like crazy and let us know how things are progressing.

Jeff_Dale 02-24-2007 05:20 PM

Thanks Robb! It's kinda hard working out of a garage without a training partner, so it's reassuring to get feedback once in awhile and make sure I'm on track. I'll check out that article too, thanks.

"So, as far as what to do...what is your current 1RM front squat? If it is significantly higher than your clean (assuming good form, depth etc) then by all means, use that for your 60% guide."
Yeah, my squat is a bit higher, but still a relatively weak figure (215).

"it may be smart to shift to 60% of your front/back"
That's funny because I have been doing 60% of my squat during this cycle. It just felt like the right amount of weight to be doing for 6x6, and I have been trying to explode up with the weight too.

Robb Wolf 02-25-2007 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Dale (Post 5358)
Thanks Robb! It's kinda hard working out of a garage without a training partner, so it's reassuring to get feedback once in awhile and make sure I'm on track. I'll check out that article too, thanks.

"So, as far as what to do...what is your current 1RM front squat? If it is significantly higher than your clean (assuming good form, depth etc) then by all means, use that for your 60% guide."
Yeah, my squat is a bit higher, but still a relatively weak figure (215).

"it may be smart to shift to 60% of your front/back"
That's funny because I have been doing 60% of my squat during this cycle. It just felt like the right amount of weight to be doing for 6x6, and I have been trying to explode up with the weight too.

Perfect! Work that rate of force development and just hammer away. Small increases from week to week will add up pretty impressively over time.

Elliot Royce 02-25-2007 10:46 AM

Since this is on topic, perhaps not a hijack, but what do you recommend if your power clean is higher than your front squat? In my case, power clean is 90kg and front squat is a bit less. The result is I just don't feel comfortable dropping into the squat with anything higher than 50-60kg. A bit weird, I know, the higher the weight I clean the less low I go.


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