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-   -   Trouble with Statics (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5914)

Troy Kerr 12-03-2010 12:00 PM

Trouble with Statics
 
I am having a little trouble with my Planche static training. It seems as though no matter how much I advance in the handstands or train the tuck planche my progress in the plance training is stalled. In terms of the handstand I have 4 ring handstand pushups in a row, able to walk at least 15 ft in a handstand, and even a 1 second 1 arm freestanding handstand. However even though I do the planche first in my routine it seems as though it still gases me as hard as ever. I have started adding planche lean push-ups into my routine as planche work for that day, and am considering adding negatives.

Steven Low 12-03-2010 05:55 PM

This can really only be answered by posting your whole routine with all types of volume/frequency/rest breaks/etc. However, since I don't really want to analyze it....

Generally, people will stall because of 2 reasons:

They're overtrained (in which case a rest break is needed)

Or they've outstripped teh gains of specific statics in which case they need more supplemental work like the pseudo planche pushups or other variations.

So if one doesnt work try the other.

Blair Lowe 12-04-2010 10:10 PM

How long of rest are you doing between planche attempts?

What is your dip strength like? Good if you can do 4 ring HSPU I'd imagine.

Personally, I would spot the tuck planche with a swiss ball or box to get that feeling in it of leaning more. This isn't really a workset but a drill to understand how to lean.

We've talked about it and I apologize that I can't remember, but how long can you hold your L-sit and other feats of abdominal strength and lower back strength?

Planche work isn't just about upper body strength.

Troy Kerr 12-05-2010 01:52 PM

L-sits I have not really been a staple in my training. Sometimes I do floor l-sits before my workout and that is usually using 5-6 second holds. If I am fresh and high on energy I could probably max out at 10 seconds. I would say the majority of my core and low back training comes from my planche, front lever, back lever, and handstand statics.
Dips are fairly decent, due to time constraints and lower levels of energy for training the only concentric work I have had in my training are the ring handstand-pushups. Rest sets are 90-120 seconds depending on energy.
I also notice that I am extremely sore from day to day training. Primarily in my arms and elbows. I make sure that I foam roll my lats, upper back, and chest daily. I also include a lot of pass-throughs with the pvs pipe and spotted german hangs.
Nutrition has been primarily paleo. I would say that 50% of my protein has been coming from progenex shakes post workout, and another later in the evening. Mainly for convenience since I tend to workout, then coach classes for a few hours afterwords.

Steven Low 12-06-2010 01:32 PM

If the joints are sore take a break for 3-4 days... see if you supercompensate too from that. If so then amount of training is likely good.

If not, then may need a bit more volume but gotta be wary of overusing joints/conncetive tissues

Blair Lowe 12-06-2010 11:24 PM

You will not progress very far in the planche until you have mastered the L-sit. It's fun to practice but I didn't find it very useful to work the planche with my gymnasts who couldn't hit a 30 L-sit. Even then, progress was slow. Of course Erik didn't like doing L-sit and hangs that long which also compounded the problem some of the time. It's called being 10 and lazy or tired (due to lack of sleep or food).

Yes, I'm short and wide and haven't been built like a typical gymnast for 15 years when I was 5' and 125 but I can still hit a 1m L-sit. It's not my core strength that holds me back on the levers, it's my lack of upper body strength. As well, I've got a lifter's lower body and I'm fatter than I should be.

Yes, I'm still short so that means shorter legs than many besides my ape arms. If you're 6 feet that L-sit is going to suck that much more. Still, that's life.

Troy Kerr 12-07-2010 09:47 AM

Yeah I am in the process of letting things heal up now Steven. I will re-test all of my statics next week and post my current times. So with Blair's advice I guess the most obvious move would to start incorporating the L-sit exclusively into my training program.The question is, should I replace the planche with the l-sit? Or incorporate them both?

Steven Low 12-07-2010 09:57 AM

Nah, if you're doing the "typical" program

You'll have hanstand, Lsit/V-sit/manna variation, planche, front lever, back lever then maybe a couple of other exercises included

Nicholas Wyss 12-07-2010 11:20 AM

Where are you at in your back lever progression?

I feel the core strength in back lever is the most similar to that required in a planche. Also, lowering into the back lever is similar in the fact that you have to "lean" forward - not open up your shoulder angle too much, which allows your shoulders travel forward. That allows you to progress out of the tuck into the straddle without throwing off your balance.

You can only progress so far just pushing with upper body strength. At some point the strength is there, but the balance must be developed.

Also, have you tried lowering into a full or straddle planche with a spotter?

Blair Lowe 12-08-2010 11:34 AM

Troy, I personally came across the same conundrum with some of my athletes. Whether to take them off training the planche because their L-sit was poor. I think the ones that had this problem may have become unhappy or felt slighted when others were working on the planche and they were not allowed to.

We also had the luxury of 3 hours workouts and then the L-sit and presses were done early on within the first hour and then we would hit the planche and levers towards the end of workouts besides having a snack break halfway through workout. We also would do planche and lever work right after the basic L-sits and presses but would do pullup, pushups, leg lifts, etc toward the end of workout.

Until your L-sit catches up, your planche and other levers may stall out. For my athletes I let continue to work on the planche and levers, but they would also have to split up that time with perhaps extra L-time in hold or support. I let them continue to work those planches and levers, but I knew they weren't really going to get anywhere with them beyond until they caught up. However, they found them fun, so I relented. Besides, they wanted to be like the stronger guys.

I know for myself, I noticed a decrease in the performance of some of the statics and ROM exercises after going through the whole L-sit, straddle-L, planks and basic warmup supports and hangs. You have to do x amount very carefully or it would just overtax me. Sometimes this was due to the fact I would suggest do a 1-1.5 L-sit, my max and move on whereas other times I would split it up or do a total volume of 3m of L-sits, which I built to eventually.

Just keep that in mind with your warmup sets, because it frustrated me a bit.


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