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-   -   Gymnastics and Powerlifting. (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5953)

Andrew Midmer 12-23-2010 07:33 AM

Gymnastics and Powerlifting.
I have started to use killroy's intro program. I'm wondering whether I can succesfully blend his program, of planche, Front L, Back L, Handstand and Wendler 5-3-1. My immediate concerns are recovery, volume etc. Does anyone have experience with coupling these two types of programs.

I have zero experience in gymnastics, 6'6", 210 lbs.

Thanks for the advice.

Patrick Donnelly 12-23-2010 09:52 AM

Pick one or the other and you'll be much better off. You'll make better progress and, in turn, enjoy your workouts more.

I tried for a good long while to combine barbells and bodyweight stuff, and perpetually sucked at both (some people may disagree, but that's only because they don't realize what's possible). Then I decided to get my act together and go purely with the bodyweight stuff, and less than a year later I can do a strict handstand press, at 6'1 210lbs (starting off with no handstand whatsoever). I wouldn't have ever got that if I continued doing both.

And even still, I'd say my training since August has been a wash. I busted my elbow up back them, which held me back, and this semester of classes had just been awful. Yet, I made better progress anything I tried with combination barbell/bodyweight work.

The idea of a bodyweight/barbell combination sounds good on paper, but it doesn't work in practice.

Steven Low 12-23-2010 10:39 AM

Combo works IF you're only doing 2 maybe 3 things from each.. not going to make as good progress with the other.

It's like combining strength + endurance. Your results will be less than each but you can make fairly decent progress in both.

I'd probably say cycling them is much better if you did 6-8 weeks wtih one then the other plus continuous skill work from gymnastics.

5/3/1 is a stand alone program.... not sure itssuch a good idea to try combine with another whole half a program if that.

Andrew Midmer 12-23-2010 11:21 AM

Thats what I was thinking - that volume and combining the programs would be too much. My line of thought was to only do the main movements in 5-3-1 and then use the skill/gymnastics work either before or after. One will have to drop off as I continue, but the demands of both are very different.

Andrew Midmer 12-23-2010 11:26 AM

In addition. Are there recommendations for anything beyond the killroy program

I have added L Sit work as a skill.

Currently doing:

Front Lever Tuck on Pullup
Lowering Back Lever
Handstand on wall
Frog Stand Planche

I'm a beginner so this is what I feel I can work on it.

Garrett Smith 12-23-2010 11:28 AM

My current approach is this:
  1. Gymnastics, front squats
  2. Gymnastics, hang clean pulls
  3. Gymnastics, back squats
  4. Gymnastics, one week sumo DLs & one week conv. rack pulls
Right now my gymnastics is simply building back my holds foundation.

I'm going to let the gymnastics training take care of my bench for a long time, and start benching again 5-6 weeks out from a meet (when I get around to one again). No upper body lifts.

This is about the best way I could see them working together.

I'm also looking at my BB lifting differently now, as lower intensity "practice" and letting the volume do the work. I'm coming off being burned out on 5/3/1 + competitions + life stress and needing something different.

Obviously focusing all one's effort will receive better results, but only gymnastics training would bore me.

Blair Lowe 12-23-2010 02:43 PM

I have hankering around with the idea of 531 and gymnastics for awhile since playing around with 531 in the summer. It would be more gymnastics than PL for me as that is my focus. I was going to implement the 531 to maintain a minimal amount of barbell lifting into a manageable schedule.

Basically simple 531 without accessory work. Maybe some dumbbell/croc rows. I used to do these when I first got into lifting before they became croc rows and loved them.

I was also going to put in some oly lift work. I think I was going to limit it to one lift per day, then the 531 lift. I'd like to get my lifts better and this is more of a just for me.

However, the primary focus will be GymnasticBodies programming 4d/week with some basic event work. Not much right now as I just need to get back to basics aka making things not hurt any more.

I'm also going to keep my days off as days off and not just a day to 531/oly. I once tried to do other programming, such as light GPP stuff on my off gymnastic days and it sucked for me.

Andrew, you are on a pretty good track. It looks you are doing the gymnastics as an accessory and just the statics right now. I would hold off on the back lever work, working basic skin the cats and ring support in either a pushup or standard ring support (or assisted).

Besides the front tuck levers, I would work on the basic hangs and doing shrugs in these hangs for shoulder health.

Patrick Donnelly 12-23-2010 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 84563)
Obviously focusing all one's effort will receive better results, but only gymnastics training would bore me.

I'm sure that having a competitive outlet for lifting helps. Fortunately, I've got a similar thing with performances through the acrobatics club, and the stuff I do isn't limited to competitive gymnastics events (or even to competitive style on traditional apparatus). I focus on handbalancing stuff and partner acro (basing for mixed pair, men's pair, and now possibly mixed quads). It is about time that I focus on rings and p-bars now though...

Steve, I've actually got a clip of our hand-to-hand routine one of the times we didn't botch up. It wasn't perfect, of course, but it was a pretty good run. Want me to post it here or somewhere?

Blair Lowe 12-23-2010 06:30 PM

Yes, Garrett, I still miss the iron when doing gymnastics only. I may even miss GPP, ok not really but it's fun so long as a bbq is afterwards.

Troy Kerr 12-23-2010 06:44 PM

I recommend gymnastics upper body and 5/3/1 lower body. Right now MWF I follow Steven Lows program of Handstand,l-sit,planche, front lever,back lever. I am coming off a really hard cycle of more intense static work and it thrashed my elbows. So I am doing the steady state cycle using longer static holds building up to 1 minute for each of my progression. I love handstand practice so I use ring HSPU or press to handstands for my upper body pressing, and various front lever work for pulling.
T-TR I use the 5/3/1 for lower body work. Right now the only consistent lift has been back squats. I usually warm-up then do some light o-lift technique work, then progress to the back squats. I am considering adding deadlifts as well. This week is really more of an experiment to see how my body responds in terms of soreness and my elbows.
It all depends on what your goals are. I am fairly comfortable with my gymnastics practices as I have been at them for a year or so. So adding the backsquats does add a bit of soreness, but I do not feel overwhelmed with the extra work. The o-lift work serves as the accessory work. I also use pistols and natural hamstring curls as accessory work some days. I did regain my leg size and strength, I went from 185, to 200 over the last 4 weeks. I have find that the added mass has not hindered my bodyweight abilities that much.

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