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-   -   My Mass Gain Plan with some questions (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=631)

Derek Simonds 03-08-2007 08:37 AM

My Mass Gain Plan with some questions
 
I used Jeff Dale's most excellent excel spreadsheet to determine the weights I will be using for my 7 week program. Based on my current level of exercise everything looks very do-able except one, the weighted pull up sets.

In the mass gain article it explains that you should not be taking the exercise to failure. Unfortunately for me 6 X 6 of unweighted pull ups would be to failure after the 2nd or 3rd set. I have always struggled with pull ups and as a result I don't train them as aggressively as I should. I can do a large volume of pull ups just not quickly. I have done 60 over the course of a 45 minute workout. I can do weighted pull ups with 45 lbs and weighted chin ups with 60 lbs for singles.

My thoughts on this were to start with no weight and work for a total of 36 even if it took over the 6 sets or no weight and do as many as I could up to 6 each set. When I was able to do the 6 X 6 completely I would add weight each week afterwards.

From the article, the template and all the posts I have read about mass gain I will need to keep my rest days as active recovery days. When I am in town I grapple 2 to 4 times a week from an hour to up to 3 hours in a day. I am committed to cutting out all other cardio and exercise do I need to cut back on my grappling as well?

I think I understand the Abs Back circuit but just for clarity it is 3 ab exercises and 1 back exercise. How many minutes would be considered High Volume which is what the template calls for?

Ok now on to the fun part the eating. I travel a ton for work so it is very difficult to have whole food for every meal that I need. Based on my size and my base caloric requirements I think I have a fair idea of what I need to consume. I am 6' 1" 185 and 11% bodyfat. Using the Zone calculation in the article I would need to take in the same amount of blocks as Greg which is 18 or 1610 calories. I don't think I have ever consumed that few of calories. Obviously I am doing this for mass gain not fat loss so adding in the extra fat blocks would put me at 2600 calories and I could work my way up from there. I really like the Zone I just have a hard time living by it all the time.

While traveling I picked up the latest Muscle and Fitness (I know don't throw any stones yet) because it was their annual nutrition blowout. Inside was what I thought was a well written article on mass gain by Jay Cutlers nutritionist.

Here is their base diet:

Meal 1
4 whole eggs and 4 egg whites
2 cups cooked oatmeal

Meal 2
6 oz canned tuna
3 slices whole wheat bread
1 tbsp fat free mayo

Meal 3
7 oz lean ground beef
1 cup cooked pasta
1/4 cup spaghetti sauce
1 cup sliced zucchini

Meal 4
Pre Workout
2 scoops whey protein w/ water
2 cups cooked oatmeal

Meal 5
Post Workout
2 scoops whey protein w/ water
1 cup rice

Meal 6
6 oz chicken breast
1 large sweet potato
1 cup broccoli

Meal 7
1 1/2 cups fat free cottage cheese
1 cup cooked pasta
1/4 cup spaghetti sauce

Total
3,769 calories
363 G Protein
433 G Carbs
69 G Fat

The things I don't like about the diet is the processed carbs (bread and pasta). The things I do like is that I could cook a large amount of meet on Sunday night and use it through out the week. I could also cut one meal or cut carbs from some of the meals so that I could moderate that calories.

The article goes into pretty good detail about how to regulate your intake based on mass vs fat gain.

My eating plan as of right now is to use the base diet above for 6 meals not 7 and to get rid of the processed carbs for vegetables. I can make kind of a meal plan work even on the road by substituting a meal replacement shake if I can't eat.

Robb Wolf 03-08-2007 01:09 PM

Derek-

1-Pull-up plan sounds good. Work up to 6x6 unweighted and then add some resistance.
2-Seat-o-your pants low carb may be the way to go. Protein at every meal. Protein and carbs post workout. Protein and fat all other meals. If you hate eating you MIGHT be eating enough.

Derek Simonds 03-08-2007 01:42 PM

Thanks for the feedback Robb.

I plan on starting next week so I will post a log and keep track of how everything is going.

At this point I think I will see how everything is going after 2 weeks and then tweak.

Mike ODonnell 03-08-2007 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb Wolf (Post 6121)
Seat-o-your pants low carb may be the way to go. Protein at every meal. Protein and carbs post workout. Protein and fat all other meals.

I agree with Robb there...typical BB programs want 2-3g CHO per Lb bodyweight...that's just too much for me...I feel like crap...probably is increasing my risk of diabetes and all that fun stuff.(not too mention if your long term goal is health and lower carb, since it should be, then all that carb loading will eventually go away at some point, just like your size will) Go with the protein every 2-3 hours, take in at least 1-1.5g/lb of bodyweight. I'd say CHO intake is good probably at 1g/lb of bodyweight with 75% being PWO (from immediate to 2-3hours after). Beradi has the P+C for 2 meals after the workout and all others P+F. DJ said it best too....Fiber with every meal. (whether it be in a shake, veggies, or flaxseeds on the food). I also tell people if they really want size to keep their workouts to 2-3x a week max....only because most people cant and will not eat the amount of calories it takes to be active every single day. Your endurance may go to crap...but it's a short term sacrifice.

Take full advantage of the PWO window as you can increase your recovery and muscle building efforts if timed right. (esp carb and BCAA intake)

Note that my CHO intake is high on workout days only....on the other days you are not lifting then it should be lower. Probably just keep the P+C for the AM only...and P+F+Veg the rest of the day. If you are grappling then you might also want to toy with PWO drink for quick replenishment.

Elliot Royce 03-08-2007 06:59 PM

Coconut milk, that's the solution. A can of that with a mass builder protein shake is around 1200 calories. It also tastes good. 2 of those per day plus some real food and weight gain will not be a problem. And coconut milk is supposed to be good for you, too (lauric acid or something).

Derek Simonds 03-08-2007 07:33 PM

MOD my current PWO solution for grappling is 16 oz of non fat chocolate milk drank with a whole bunch of water. In regards to working out I have made a serious commitment to only work out using the template Greg and Robb put together.

Long term health is definitely on my goal list. One of the guys that works for me was reading my post and he was asking me what supplements are you going to do to help you bulk up? My reply, nothing because I don't know what is in all of those supplements and I don't want to risk it. I also agree with your comments on the CHO, too much and I feel like crap. I don't mind CHO from vegetables (with lots of fiber) it just gets real hard to eat of ton of vegetables.

Elliot I will check out the coconut milk. That sounds perfect for the days I am traveling.

Dave Van Skike 03-09-2007 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Royce (Post 6134)
Coconut milk, that's the solution. A can of that with a mass builder protein shake is around 1200 calories. It also tastes good. 2 of those per day plus some real food and weight gain will not be a problem. And coconut milk is supposed to be good for you, too (lauric acid or something).

Ironically, cocnut milk is one of the things thaty I have used on the v-diet dieting...:eek: I was havign challenges choking back all the shakes on account of the grossness of their taste. Went to three shakes ED at about 500 Kcla each. 1/3 of a can of cocunt milk gives a lot of calories and pretty good mouth feel to whatever you're mixing it with.

John Alston 04-04-2007 09:44 AM

This sounds like a good plan.
And i Seriously support the coconut milk. Any vanilla protein shake becomes super tasty with half a can of coconut milk in it. There's gotta be somewhere I can buy cans in bulk... Costco? I'll check next time...

Robb Wolf 04-04-2007 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Alston (Post 8153)
This sounds like a good plan.
And i Seriously support the coconut milk. Any vanilla protein shake becomes super tasty with half a can of coconut milk in it. There's gotta be somewhere I can buy cans in bulk... Costco? I'll check next time...

John-
We buy a super cheap, good quality coconut milk from Raleys/Bel Air. If you have an asian grocery you should be able to find good quality product there.

John Alston 04-05-2007 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb Wolf (Post 8163)
John-
We buy a super cheap, good quality coconut milk from Raleys/Bel Air. If you have an asian grocery you should be able to find good quality product there.

Yeah, when I was in San Francisco, coconut milk and other coconut was cheaper and more available, but now in Brooklyn, the dollar stores don't carry 50-cent cans. I'll keep hunting...


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