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-   -   Organizing Goals for new cycle (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6322)

Troy Kerr 08-28-2011 08:31 PM

Organizing Goals for new cycle
I am wrapping up my current cycle and will re-test holds and other numbers within the next two weeks. For my next cycle I have a few questions concerning how to organize my goals and establish the best training route possible.

Straight arm and Bent arm days: What is the best way to divide up straight arm and bent arm days? Right now I train 4 days a week, rotating a push/pull schedule. It seems that SA pushing work is limited to planche, planche leans, and handstand press variations. And since I am still very weak at SA wall presses, I practice these after planche statics both days of the week. Pulling work is a little easier to divide up. Is it necessary to divide up bent arm and straight arm work? Usually I can do more volume on bent arm days, but I wonder if I should devote my time exclusively to straight arm work?

When developing the SA Press as a handstand skill, should one also devote time to handstand statics? SA HS presses take a lot out of me, but seem like they are better suited for pressing days, where as ring HS seem like they would fit in better as everyday skill work?

With manipulating volume and intensity week to week, does this mean one of your training days, whether it is SA or BA work, pushing or pulling, should be dedicated to getting volume, and another on less volume by higher intensity?

With Pre-hab, are certain movements better reserved for either pushing or pulling workouts? Would the bulk of your scapula retraction pre-hab better be reserved after a pulling day, or would doing it before on a pushing day leave too much risk for exhausting the upper back for pulling work? Does the same apply with doing protraction work on a pushing day? Basically should specific pre-hab elements be trained on their respective days?

Steven Low 08-29-2011 02:17 PM

1. IMO THere's no need to divide up bent arm and straight arm work if you are already doing a push/pull system.

Typically, I like full body but if that doesn't work then either push/pull, BA/SA, or upper lower can work. Generally, you don't want to divide into both push/pull and upper/lower because of the decrease in frequency of a lot of the skills you will be doing won't allow good progress.

2a. If your handstand statics are already good then start working them on rings.

2b. SA press should be included with pressing work, after your handstand practice.

3. Depends what your level of ability is... if you're seeing weekly progress I would tend to manipulating your days towards volume vs intensity (or light/heavy or whatever you want to call it). Some variant of DUP is what I feel is the easiest to implement for most people.

4. Prehab elements for all intents and purposes should be done when you feel like you need it. That would generally mean everyday or at least 3-4x a week. Which typically means every training session or if you like doing them on off days instead of workout days thats fine too.

Troy Kerr 08-29-2011 03:08 PM

With manipulating the volume / intensity, should that apply to the static holds and the concentric movements, or just one or the other? Blair has mentioned adding volume by doing 2 minutes of static hold work, 1 minute with a step down from whatever progression, and 1 minute of the current progression. This seems like it would work fine, but would I also want to reduce the intensity of another pulling movement in order to accumulate more volume? Right now I'm kinda visualizing this looking like one of Rippetoes templates of 4 weeks of volume, and another 4 weeks of less volume but higher intensity.

Steven Low 08-29-2011 07:43 PM

I count about 2s of isometric as 1 repetition.

Therefore, if a light day has say 10 reps, and a heavy day has 5 reps you will want about 10s hold and a 20s hold.

Obviously, where you are in a progression will help dictate what that may be. If for example, you can hold an adv. tuck for like 13-18s then 10s hold would work pretty well for that one.

FOr the 20s hold you can't do the adv tuck so you can do one of three things. You can add a weight vest or ankle weights to tuck planche. You can start out with adv tuck for 5-7s hold, then reverse to tuck for teh rest of the time. Or you can just hold the previous progression for an increased amount of volume.

Again, I will have some charts in the book to help determine hold times and such. This is the way I like to approach it though instead of massively increasing volume. Modifying positions to hold times, or modifying hold times to positions works best (just like you can modify loads to exercises or exercises to loads in traditional barbell work).

Troy Kerr 08-30-2011 12:37 PM

When I re-test my max holds and other numbers I will post it. That should make it easier to break down. I am still working on developing my strict muscle up. I am making progress with false grip pullups, I can def. pull a lot higher now that a few months ago. Something that really helped was strengthening up my inner elbow with ring curls in a 3x5. So as that gets better I hope to wrap up the strict muscle up soon. With my front lever training I feel the thing that helps the most is negatives. I switched to doing 1/2 lay negatives as opposed to full front lever negatives, I can def. control the 1/2's better. But with other concentric movements its hard to gauge what helps the most. Probably SA fl pulls. I feel as though FL rows or the "ice-cream maker" isn't nearly as productive. So I guess what I'm getting at is should I add any bent-arm pulling work to my program? right now i have statics, negatives which I do once a week, FL pulls, and false grip pullups, which dont really feel to taxing. I am only training them because I was told a slow muscle should be developed. However I dont execute very much vertical pulling. What are the drawbacks to this? I would love to start incorporating IC negatives, or Cross pulls with a band. I can hold an RTO support for 40 seconds. I havent tried Ring HS in awhile. I understand the need to prep the biceps tendon. But if scaled properly, can one still reap the benefits? If not are there any vertical pulling movements that I should start including?

Steven Low 08-30-2011 03:59 PM

Front lever pullup progression, and other type of rowing progression like working up to one arm rows is very useful for bent arm pulling IMO.

Weighted chins to 50% bodyweight (not necessarily developed through the weighted chins themselves) then you can begin OAC or cross preparation training.

Flexor tendons at the medial epicondyle are more at risk than the biceps tendon is in cross and OAC. Although you can still develop issues at both.

Troy Kerr 08-31-2011 12:34 PM

I am gradually testing my maxes throughout the week. Today I had some pretty decent results.
Tuck planche: went from barely 1 second, to a 5-7 second hold. This is pretty solid since I only recently started using a band for support during my tuck planche, and doing a ton of of protraction pre-hab work.
Front lever- Adv tuck: 10 seconds, this has not gotten worse, even though I have gotten stronger with FL pulls, rows, and negatives. I can hold a single leg front lever for 5-6 seconds. I will probably re-test these later this week as I have been up since 5 and in and out of class all day.
OAC negatives: I tried these by using a mixed grip pullup, and gradually taking a finger off, I did a 3x 2 ( 1 per arm) and could get a 7 second negative with 2 fingertips. My only concern with these would be doing these early in the week, and the front lever negatives later on in the week, I would assume this would leave to a bit of overuse?
RTO Dips and Bulg Dips: 2 RTO dips, probably could of gotten 3, bulg dips 5.

I was a little low on energy during this but I finally broke up my planche stagnation. I am considering doing a SA BA total split based on how you guys ( most likely Steven) recommend I adjust my volume and intensity week to week.

Steven Low 08-31-2011 01:47 PM

I prefer push/pull over SA/BA and upper/lower personally.

I personally do not think you are ready for OAC work yet either. Don't seem to be strong enough yet..

Troy Kerr 09-02-2011 09:20 AM

I trust your opinion. So as far as setting up a weekly template:

Skill Work: 4x15 second Ring Handstands. L-sits: I recently started training a low l-sit and a high tuck and just rotated the days. I will re-test my l-sit today as well as the high tuck.

Statics: How should I manipulate volume and intensity week to week? 1 heavy or intense day, 1 light or volume day? All I have done up to this point is 50% of max holds. If there is a heavy and light day, should those vary week to week as well? Such as ( week 1 50%, week 2, 70%, week 3 80%) similar to some weightlifting programs?

Concentrics: I assume how the statics are arranged by either heavy or light will have an influence on the intensities of my push pull work in this category as well. Right now my movements are:

Push: Straight arm Handstand wall press, progressing to smooth reps. 5-6 x 1?
Pseudo Planche Push-ups: Either on the floor, or in tuck planche on parralettes using a band? 3x5 or 5x3

Pull: Front lever Negatives ( 1/2 lay): 5-6x 1x 5-7 seconds, once a week.
Front Lever Pull: 5x3 ( adv. tuck), this cycle focusing on using a solid temp. 30X1
Front Lever Pull-up: I will work on these today, I need to get video of my straddle FLPU to check ROM.

My biggest question is how to manipulate the intensities of the statics week to week as I assume that will impact other push/pull work.

Steven Low 09-02-2011 03:56 PM

Statics you can manipulate the volume like I said above.

Or you can change it up with doing higher volume 50% holds, and then lower volume 70% holds if that makes it easier for you to do.

To make it easy overall just do one workout heavy/hard with lower repetitions and harder activities (like I said if you are having trouble moving between progressions to make it harder you can add 5 lbs or something to give you some measurable progress) and alternate that with lighter days with more reps...

Just a simple heavy/light system at this point would work well for you.

3-5 reps vs 6-8 reps.

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