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-   -   Clean evaluation (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6495)

Aaron Fondry 01-22-2012 02:02 PM

Clean evaluation
 
I feel as though my hips never fully get into my cleans and i think that is limiting potentially higher numbers. Heres a couple pulls at my 65% from a couple angles. btw i'm on my newly made oly platform :)


http://youtu.be/Y25Zz_HShu4


http://youtu.be/81k599NKVgs

Matt Morris 01-22-2012 05:29 PM

Hey Aaron,

Keep it up! The platform is awesome, too!

The weight is pulling you forward a bit from the very start. try moving the bar forward 1 inch in your starting position with your weight balanced on your foot (maybe even a touch more towards the toes), and then "rock" backwards onto your heels as the bar passes your knees.

Also, it looks like your hips are the first thing to rise on the lift, keep your back angle fixed until you get the bar past your knees and you start to open up for your second pull.

Hope this helps!

Aaron Fondry 01-22-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Morris (Post 95174)
Hey Aaron,

Keep it up! The platform is awesome, too!

The weight is pulling you forward a bit from the very start. try moving the bar forward 1 inch in your starting position with your weight balanced on your foot (maybe even a touch more towards the toes), and then "rock" backwards onto your heels as the bar passes your knees.

Also, it looks like your hips are the first thing to rise on the lift, keep your back angle fixed until you get the bar past your knees and you start to open up for your second pull.

Hope this helps!

It does thanks Matt. I can't seem to get the first pull down correctly and I think its throwing everything else off. My hang cleans look and feel much better/stronger. If I leave my hips down with my back angle fixed, I can't seem to get the bar comfortably or easily past my knees. I've tried doing some halting deadlifts, but I think im still doing it wrong and don't want to ingrain/practice the motion incorrectly

Gareth Rees 01-23-2012 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Fondry (Post 95173)
I feel as though my hips never fully get into my cleans and i think that is limiting potentially higher numbers. Heres a couple pulls at my 65% from a couple angles. btw i'm on my newly made oly platform :)


http://youtu.be/Y25Zz_HShu4


http://youtu.be/81k599NKVgs

Just my points... I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I see;

Your hips definately do rise just before the bar breaks from the floor. So regardless of where your starting position is, you essentially are starting the lift with the hips too high, and your shoulders look as though they then come too far forward over the bar.

When you extend your legs during the first pull your back bows a little, nearly becoming horizontal, your legs are not too far off being straight, and the bar is around the knees, you then have nowhere to go other than to pull with the back and begin your second pull. (I wish I knew how to take captions from youtube, and add them on to here, I could show exactly what I'm saying. Just pause youtube at various points...) Because of this back angle and your legs becoming too straight too soon, you're scooping way too early to try to stay on balance. Not only this, but also as a result of you being off balance, you're bending your arms very prematurely to try to keep that combined centre of mass over your feet.... Also the reason you're jumping forward slightly! Essentially you're slightly off balance; meaning you can't pull as strong, you're pulling the bar up with the arms and not the body down; meaning you can't lift as heavy, you're scooping early and pulling with the back; meaning you're not using the muscles in full co-ordination and missing out valuable tension that adds strength.

In my opinion, a few various flaws that rob you of many kilo's to the bar, that can be rectified pretty much from one or two easy changes. One flaw in this case, leads to a few issues, so sorting out that flaw will naturally iron out the issues as a result of it. I wish I had as few issues as you, and could move as much weight.

Hope I hit the mark there, and wasn't too far off. Hope it makes sense too.

P.S. Love the platform, and slightly jealous!!!!

Gareth Rees 01-23-2012 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Fondry (Post 95176)
It does thanks Matt. I can't seem to get the first pull down correctly and I think its throwing everything else off. My hang cleans look and feel much better/stronger. If I leave my hips down with my back angle fixed, I can't seem to get the bar comfortably or easily past my knees. I've tried doing some halting deadlifts, but I think im still doing it wrong and don't want to ingrain/practice the motion incorrectly

My post above ^^^^ would explain this too I believe, as you're putting yourself in a better position to pull, and remaining on balance from the hang. Showing that the problem can maybe be attributed to the hip rise during 1st pull...

Greg Everett 01-23-2012 10:51 AM

Keep your posture up as you leave the floor - aim to have your arms still vertical when the bar is at your knees, weight more on the heels than balls of the feet.

Stay back and extend the knees a bit longer before you come in with the hips - that is, keep the shoulders over the bar until it's at least at mid-thigh and wait until that point to start the final explosion effort.

You're actually dominating with the hips, and too soon - probably because you get a bit too far over the bar and let your weight shift forward, so you have to rush to open up to maintain balance. You push the hips through the bar without punching down through the floor with the legs, so you just scoot forward under the bar rather than getting more speed on it. Hit high on the thigh, punch the legs down as you pop the hips open and keep your weight a bit farther back and you'll get a good explosive pop on the bar and not be getting pulled forward.

Aaron Fondry 01-23-2012 05:45 PM

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the responses. I don't know why I can't pick up the first pull correctly. My snatches have the same problem, just not as bad.

I try to keep my back angle the same and keep my chest up while keeping my hips down and I can never seem to clear my knees without actively trying to clear them. Even when I clear them it seems that I am then too far away from my quads and hips. I want to practice them, but im always one who believes in perfect practice, so I try not to ingrain the wrong movement patterns. Frustrating.

Greg Everett 01-24-2012 09:42 AM

Segment deadlifts or halting deadlifts. you need to both learn and strengthen the correct positions/movements - get the knees out of the way without shifting over the bar excessively and push the bar back into your lap as it pass the knees.

Aaron Fondry 01-24-2012 11:27 AM

New Video
 
UPDATED VIDEO

I unloaded the bar and went real light in order to focus on the points listed above. The 4th (last) clean, it looks like i resorted back to my old ways, but it seems like the first three were an improvement(?)

Let me know how these look.


http://youtu.be/CmCarQSsf9w

Greg Everett 01-24-2012 02:50 PM

Your posture is much better - but you're still shifting forward into the bar rather than pushing the bar back into yourself. Try doing some reps with an extremely slow first pull - 3 count or so - to upper thigh, then explode there while keeping your weight back and actively pushing the bar into your upper thighs with your lats. You're just in a bit of a hurry and you're starting your second pull way down at the knees - you have to wait much longer for it. Do that and you'll be far better balanced and quicker.


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