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-   -   Snatch, C & J, Front Squat: technique advice? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6740)

Michael Evans 09-01-2012 04:25 PM

Snatch, C & J, Front Squat: technique advice?
 
Update

Decided to postpone week 4 of the starter program and do a week of technical drills instead. I had followed along with a video on youtube before, but that was before I started filming myself and before I had Greg's book.

Here are my best couple reps with each drill. I watched the film after each set and tried to make adjustments.

Overall I'm much happier with it, I'm not landing forward anymore and the bar seems closer to my body.

Few questions though:

1. Overhead squat, I know I should have some forward lean, but I feel like mine looks exaggerated, however I also feel like if I straighten my shoulders any more vertically I can't hold the position. Do they look ok or do I need to get more upright?

2. Mid Hang Pull, and actually all 2nd pulls, I still feel like it looks like my hips are pushing the bar out, though not as much. Am I just overthinking and paranoid, or is it really happening?

3. Lower back, should it be more arched at the bottom, I feel like my hips curl under at the last minute and my back becomes more neutral than arched. Ok, or need more flexibility work?



Thanks Again!

/Update




Today was the end of week 3 of the starter program. Any feedback or advice would be really appreciated. Thanks for watching :)

With the last few snatches I was having trouble keeping my elbows locked out. Also, the little dance I do after the recover with 185 was because I messed up adjusting for the jerk and was fighting to get the bar in place.

Also, I promise never to put up this long of a video again... I just wanted to include everything since this is the first time I've gotten feedback.

Michael Evans 09-01-2012 04:47 PM

Accidentally made a duplicate thread, pulling this response in from the other one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair Lowe (Post 97648)
In the basic drill of the 2nd pull to muscle snatch with PVC you go forward on to your toes. No bueno. This is also why you land slightly forward.

In the 2nd pull, you lean back on your heels and then slide forward into your toes. No bueno, I think.

As your hips rise from the floor, your back angle gets more horizontal.

Thanks Blair, now that I look for it I see what you mean. Pulling with my weight on my heels is probably an old habit from when I did powerlifting in college. What would be a good drill to fix that?

Thanks!

Blair Lowe 09-02-2012 05:48 PM

Keep your weight on your heels are are directly under where the tibia connects to the foot. Keeping that weight on the heels IS NOT a bad habit. Letting it shift forward to the ball of the foot is, especially that over exaggerated heel raise in your warmup drill.

I dunno. I don't think you want to be where the toes of the foot are coming off the ground but come close to that.

Coming from a traditional American baseball atmosphere I want to just say "Stay on your fucking heels!" I don't cuss when I coach (well almost never) but it's what I would say and tell myself. Stay on fucking heels. Stay on fucking heels. Stay on fucking heels goddamit.

Michael Evans 09-03-2012 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair Lowe (Post 97651)
Keep your weight on your heels are are directly under where the tibia connects to the foot. Keeping that weight on the heels IS NOT a bad habit. Letting it shift forward to the ball of the foot is, especially that over exaggerated heel raise in your warmup drill.

I dunno. I don't think you want to be where the toes of the foot are coming off the ground but come close to that.

Coming from a traditional American baseball atmosphere I want to just say "Stay on your fucking heels!" I don't cuss when I coach (well almost never) but it's what I would say and tell myself. Stay on fucking heels. Stay on fucking heels. Stay on fucking heels goddamit.

Haha, ok so I guess I didn't get what you meant. Now I think I do though. So I just need to focus on keeping my weight back more and keeping the bar close so I don't shift forward?

Posted an update video at the top of thread too.

Blair Lowe 09-03-2012 03:38 PM

http://postimage.org/image/pk9cvh46h/

It's not exaggerated in this screenshot as you do get but it's still too forward. This is partially because you are going slow and fully extending through your ankles by shifting weight from the heel to the ball of the foot.

Quote:

So I just need to focus on keeping my weight back more and keeping the bar close so I don't shift forward?

Michael Evans 09-03-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair Lowe (Post 97659)
http://postimage.org/image/pk9cvh46h/

It's not exaggerated in this screenshot as you do get but it's still too forward. This is partially because you are going slow and fully extending through your ankles by shifting weight from the heel to the ball of the foot.

Blair, thanks for all the feedback, I'm still a little confused though.

Is the problem that my ankles are extending at all, that they are extending too far, that I'm spending too much time with them extended and need to start the pull under sooner, or all three? Am I "jumping" too much?

I've read about how you're suppose to keep your center of mass over the front of the heel even though the pressure moves to the ball of the foot but I don't really understand that concept yet. I don't understand how to do that. Is the problem that I'm pushing too hard through my ankles? Should I reverse the pull before my heels get that high off the ground?

Just to be sure since your screenshot is from the first video, in the newer video from today, this is still too far forward and too much ankle extension correct?


Blair Lowe 09-03-2012 09:11 PM

My screenshot was from your PVC drill. In either video you did it the same way.

The way I know it, someone correct me if I'm wrong please as I'm still figuring this stuff out for myself.

At start, weight is in ball of the foot. As the bar is lifted, weight goes back to the heels and never goes back again toward the ball.

Even during the "jump" when the heel comes off the floor.

You rock forward to the ball of your foot before you "jump off the floor."

This is one of the reasons the bar goes too far forward and you lose it in front of you.

Notice how you keep on landing forward of where you start.

Quote:

Is the problem that my ankles are extending at all, that they are extending too far, that I'm spending too much time with them extended and need to start the pull under sooner, or all three? Am I "jumping" too much?
I dunno really. Someone with a better coaching eye would.

Just think about staying on your heels.

Right now, the cues I'm trying to use for myself are:

Stay on heels.

Pull the bar to hip/pocket in snatch (mid thigh for clean).

Keep the bar close to my body as I transition from 2nd to 3rd pull. Don't let the bar bump forward.

But honestly since I tweaked my wrists on Monday, I'm back to snatching just the bar only maybe with some 5's on the side. My wrists can't take anymore. From 75 to 25.

Greg Everett 09-04-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Evans (Post 97647)
1. Overhead squat, I know I should have some forward lean, but I feel like mine looks exaggerated, however I also feel like if I straighten my shoulders any more vertically I can't hold the position. Do they look ok or do I need to get more upright?

Yes it's exaggerated. Only enough to get the bar over the back of the neck. You're actively pushing your hips back in the standing position. Just stand.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Evans (Post 97647)
2. Mid Hang Pull, and actually all 2nd pulls, I still feel like it looks like my hips are pushing the bar out, though not as much. Am I just overthinking and paranoid, or is it really happening?

Yes, you're humping it too much. Push through the floor and keep your weight over your heels. Stop thinking about center of pressure and all that. Weight back, push down, back back to hips. If you want to keep it really simple, put something on the floor right in front of your toes. Jump and don't touch it. Right now you're shifting forward on your feet, sometimes before you even start the actual movement, but always during the movement itself.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Evans (Post 97647)
3. Lower back, should it be more arched at the bottom, I feel like my hips curl under at the last minute and my back becomes more neutral than arched. Ok, or need more flexibility work?

Couldn't see this very well. The big issue with your bottom position is that you're leaning your head forward and diving your chest, which is why you don't have the structure to support the bar overhead and keep dropping it like you do. Chest up to the bar, head up, bar over the back of the neck.

Michael Evans 09-05-2012 10:45 AM

Alright, thanks for all the help Blaire, I'll try not to overthink it too much and just stay on my heels, heels, fucking heels ;)

Michael Evans 09-05-2012 10:50 AM

Greg, thanks for the feedback. Its interesting that you say I'm pushing my hips back, since that one of the main cues in a powerlifting squat and I was never sure if I was doing it enough. Time to unlearn that habit.

Thanks for the tip about putting something in front of my feet. I'll give that a shot and once I've got all the things you guys have pointed out mostly fixed I'll post another video.

Thanks


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