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Old 03-01-2009, 01:40 PM   #15
Donald Lee
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Below are some comments on the eccentric training discussion:

Quote:
Considerations:

1. Maximal muscle tension is developed at higher eccentric
contractions, 180° vs 30°, Farthing Chilibeck, and even much faster
with plyometrics.

2. The resistance research was isokinetics. This means

a. the eccentric effort was maximal – not just that the eccentric was
just fast – with much higher muscle tension.

b. with isokinetics resistance -- once dangerous muscle tension levels
are reached -- the neuro-muscular Golgi TO system can/does? disengage
tension. With a max eccentric weight the system somehow knows via
prroprioceptive feedback, that disengaging increases the probability
of joint injury and by passes the Golgi activity and increases tension?

Possibly this is a fast feed back, even reflex, loop, i.e., speed of
lengthening increases with tension decrease – where as disengaging
from isokinetic resistance does not increase lengthening/rotation
(about a joint) speed?

Also with the isokinetics resistance there is no resistance through
the EIC (eccentric-isometric-concentric) transition nor even the end
of the eccentric rep (or start of the concentric).

3. If it is true that fast eccentrics, 180° or more a second, does
hypertrophy IIB’s without transformation, is it because:

a. the high load fast speed eccentrics TUT (time under tension) is
short, as would be any plyometrics.

b. the extra tension magnitude somehow overrides the IIB conversion to
IIAB

c. or both?



TRAINING CONSIDERATIONS

During explosive squats with weights, does anyone use a plyometric/
counter movement drop before concentric/positive movements.

The ideal resistance would overload the eccentric so that maximal
effort resulted in a speed of about 180° or more? a second. I built a
machine about 25 years ago, see US patent 4,863,161, where I combined
an inertial weight with a motor driven hydraulic system that could
overload the eccentric then release to the inertial weight already in
force. The hydraulic could be set to any speed though at the time I
wasn’t aware of the eccentric benefits/protocols.

A conversation with a hydraulics engineer from Martin Marrieta
Aerospace made me aware of the dangers associated with hydraulic
systems with multiple valves, “sometimes these systems mall function
and enormous pressures can result” so I took it off and used the
present inertial linear actuator to adjust between eccentric and
concentric. The problem was it took 1-2 seconds to translate the
inertial weight between positions losing the valuable fast EIC
(eccentric-isometric-concentric) transition speed/forces. The
technology now exists to allow this with electrical systems.

Therefore when using an inertial weight -- the athlete must use enough
to descend in about a second! Every example I’ve seen keeps eccentrics
in the 3 second per movement range. Using a power rack would be
essential. People have used detach bars in the past that drop the
weight of when the weight reached the bottom, then allows the athlete
to explode upward where the athletes training partners reattach the
weights.

This can also be done with many exercises without other means. The
most obvious example is dumbbell bench press up and let down in a
moderately wide flying motion.

There are ways to do this for any muscle(s) with any single and many
multiple joint systems. Note that pec dumbbell fly’s are a 3 joint
system.

And lastly it seems better to train this way only once every 7-10 days.

So?



The effects of eccentric and concentric training at different
velocities on muscle hypertrophy

Journal European Journal of Applied Physiology

Publisher Springer Berlin / Heidelberg

ISSN 1439-6319 (Print) 1439-6327 (Online)

Subject Biomedical and Life Sciences and Medicine

Issue Volume 89, Number 6 / August, 2003

Authors

Jonathan P. Farthing, Philip D. Chilibeck


Jerry Telle
Lakewood CO USA=
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