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Old 09-11-2009, 06:53 AM   #18
Darryl Shaw
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 681

Originally Posted by Mike Romano View Post
from my understanding there are some theories that an agricultural lifestyle was originally adapted only because grains elicited an opiate-like response. Of course, they were forced to come up with ways to consume other starchy products, like fermenting soy and soaking said grains for several days....but that still doesn't change the fact that, as a whole, agriculture created societies that were incredibly sick compared to previous ones. w/fs

Article is about why humans adapted, and then stuck with agriculture. Hint: it is not because they were healthier for it.
Interesting stuff. I was familliar with the theory that grains might originally have been farmed to make beer but I hadn't heard they might have been grown because they contained opioid like substances before.

Anyway, I don't dispute the fact that human health suffered following the agricultural revolution but I believe that was the result of societal changes rather than the grains themselves. After all over billion asians eat grain based diets today and those who stick with their traditional diet rarely develop any of the "diseases of civilization".

Originally Posted by Mike Romano
Where does this inference come from that starches are healthier than fatty meats?
Atherosclerosis in the Masai, Inuits developing atherosclerosis and osteoporosis, the association between animal protein and saturated fat intakes and CVD, overweight/obesity, osteoporosis, diabetes and various cancers compared with the low incidence of these diseases in vegetarians, vegans and ethnic groups who traditionally eat a plant based diet high in starchy carbohydrates.

EDITORIAL: Plant-based diets: what should be on the plate?

Associations of whole-grain, refined-grain, and fruit and vegetable consumption with risks of all-cause mortality and incident coronary artery disease and ischemic stroke: the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study.

The effects of a whole grain–enriched hypocaloric diet on cardiovascular disease risk factors in men and women with metabolic syndrome.

Our basic physiology and nutritional requirements were established long before we became proficient hunters and our bodies like those of all other primates are designed to perform optimally on a mostly plant based diet.

Originally Posted by Mike Romano
And back to the Tarahumara....from the studies that I posted, it is debatable that they are healthy. Heart murmurs from running, signs of malnourishment....are these really ideal states? How are we defining "healthy"? As the ability to run 100 miles at a clip? If that is the case........
According to the 1973-4 study the Tarahumara's tradtional diet was "generally of high nutritional quality" and they were found to be in good health. As for their cardiovascular health I refer you to this paper (link) where it is reported that some Tarahumara runners had a diastolic pressure of zero during and immediately after a race. Now I have no idea if that's normal for ultra-endurance athletes but I've never heard of anyone having a diastolic pressure that low before in fact I thought you had to be dead before your diastolic pressure could get down to zero so maybe someone better qualified then me would like to comment on what this says about their cardiovascular health.

Originally Posted by Mike Romano
btw, getting access to that article in a second from my school's server
Cool. Did it say whether or not there were any tooth mark on those bones?

Last edited by Darryl Shaw; 09-14-2009 at 05:41 AM. Reason: typo
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