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Old 06-11-2012, 03:02 PM   #6
Greg Everett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
For most people trying to muddle their way through this rule of thumb is hugely beneficial. I think athletes writing their own exercise prescriptions are often clueless as to what is reasonable until they have tried and failed numerous times.
Fair enough. Although again, I think its vagueness makes its utility even in this sense more limited than people who are using it would like it to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
That example is a little unfair as you're using 90% of a clean not 90% of a max clean pull. not that I know or care about the difference between the two but the chart isn't really useable unless you're calculating like things.
Well... it was developed as a result of observing weightlifters and intended for programming for weightlifters. Weightlifters calculate pull weights based on classic lifts. So it doesn't seem unfair to me. It seems like it's a problem with the system worth noting for the very beginners you mention above trying to learn how to program. There's no such thing as a 100% pull because where a pull stops being a pull and becomes a deadlift is pretty subjective, and few weightlifters ever pull that heavy anyway.

And even leaving the pull example aside, you can still make the same basic argument using classic lifts versus more strength based lifts like squats. What you can/can't do, or the results of training of each at a given % and volume can be considerably different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
IMO, it should be the goal of any self trained athlete (99%) to have learned the how and why of what works for them. Creativity and judgement need to be learned. The chart is a learning tool

Kind of like how fairy tales teach basic rules of consequences, exercise dogma like the chart are good starting points for learning what is reasonable and what is unreasonable..once you have this general sense you can begin to push it.

By the same token, I would not expect a good coach to ever have use of the thing as he/she can tell with their eyes how an individual is reacting to volume or intensity within a very short assessment period.
I guess that's my issue with it. You can say it's a learning tool to help newer lifters and coaches learn how to program better, but then if you say in order to make good use of it, you have to understand more about programming than what's represented by the table, you're basically saying that a person needs to know more than they can learn from the chart in order to learn from the chart. I'm not saying by any means that it's useless, just that getting hung up on it is probably a mistake. It's one tool in a very large toolbox, and using it for everything is like building cabinets with nothing but a screwdriver.
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