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Old 07-03-2007, 09:13 PM   #1
Neal Winkler
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Default Why lift anything but raw?

Maybe it's because I don't lift big weights, but I just don't get the point of lifting with squat suits and bench shirts.

What if I made some robot arms that still required me to exert my maximal muscular effort, but at the same time allowed me to lift 1,000,000 pounds, then I went around telling people that I lifted 1,000,000 pounds? I honestly don't see the difference between that and squats suits.

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.
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Old 07-03-2007, 10:29 PM   #2
Garrett Smith
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No argument here...
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:28 PM   #3
Dave Van Skike
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To compete....I have no idea why someone just screwing around a gym would use a suit.

If you want to compete in powerlifting you go to where the good guys are...most of those are in gear equipped organizations. That is the baseline. it's that simple. You want to compete with the best, you go to where they are, you use what they use. You don't show up to a local bike race on your 3 speed chuffy and expect to clean up.. you roll the same gear as the competition. That's not cheating, it's playing along.

That said, everyone squatting a huge amount in a suit can squat very big out of suit.
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:21 AM   #4
Yvana van den Hork
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There's something to be said for using straps, but even there I'm both too lazy and a bit much of a chicken to use them. E.g. I'd rather give up on a deadlift or BOR because of lacking grip than because my back gives up.

Re grip , a slimmer bar helped TONS!

As for the actual gear (ply suits etc.) for powerlifting (not the same as weight lifting, at least this is how it is pereceived), I can understand how it came about. But what about those who want to lift RAW at meets?

A friend of mine started out as a powerlifter, but because she disliked the gear (suits, wraps etc.) decided to take up Olympic lifting instead, because this is done without suits.
Anyone who can relate?
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvana van den Hork View Post
There's something to be said for using straps, but even there I'm both too lazy and a bit much of a chicken to use them. E.g. I'd rather give up on a deadlift or BOR because of lacking grip than because my back gives up.
I have this debate with a friend of mine who is a regular xfitter. When the WOD asks for max deadlifts he usually reaches failure b/c of grip failure.
I think that this is a failure to reap the benefits of the lift. Your hands are tiny compared to the muscles along the posterior chain working to get the max weight off the floor.
If you want to max out a pull, don't let the smallest muscle limit the work the biggest ones can get. If you're not ready to max out, then it's not so much an issue.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:11 AM   #6
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
I have this debate with a friend of mine who is a regular xfitter. When the WOD asks for max deadlifts he usually reaches failure b/c of grip failure.
I think that this is a failure to reap the benefits of the lift. Your hands are tiny compared to the muscles along the posterior chain working to get the max weight off the floor.
If you want to max out a pull, don't let the smallest muscle limit the work the biggest ones can get. If you're not ready to max out, then it's not so much an issue.

I have a tough time with this...Certainily in a testing environment (gym maxes etc) straps are not giving you a chance for accurate feedback on your lift. I do think straps have a place for lots of different elements of the lift like overload work, higher reps work, hi -pulls etc also think it's less stressful on CNS to pull with straps...no I have no basis in science to tell me why I think that, it just seems to work that way for me.

I have read the work of severla very, very good pullers advocating straps but these folks typically don't have grip issues. Like you said, if grip is holding you back, fix it. Personally I have only medium size paws and fairly weak grip (I can't close a #2 COC ) but have never missed a lift using the hook grip.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:29 PM   #7
Yvana van den Hork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
I have this debate with a friend of mine who is a regular xfitter. When the WOD asks for max deadlifts he usually reaches failure b/c of grip failure.
I think that this is a failure to reap the benefits of the lift. Your hands are tiny compared to the muscles along the posterior chain working to get the max weight off the floor.
If you want to max out a pull, don't let the smallest muscle limit the work the biggest ones can get. If you're not ready to max out, then it's not so much an issue.
True, but sofar I'm happy enough with the results I got from using a slimmer bar (shorter too, which makes balancing even more easy). Combined with a mixed grip, this made a difference of over 20kg. Once I'm again having grip problems, I'll reconsider straps.
But I'm thinking there still is more progress possible with smarter training. Really liked wave loading for instance.

And then again, I'd probably still like practicing grip first, with your CoC grippers.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:17 AM   #8
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
What if I made some robot arms that still required me to exert my maximal muscular effort, but at the same time allowed me to lift 1,000,000 pounds
That would be sweeet! I'd order a pair.....Robot arms go!
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:05 AM   #9
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Not that I necessarily agree, but I remembered reading about Louie Simmons' take on equipment. Interesting perspective if nothing else: http://www.westside-barbell.com/Arti...ing%20Back.pdf

"Nothing has changed since powerlifting began. Everyone looks for an edge. That's simply sport. I remember 20 years ago some knee wraps had a rubber lining. Bill Kazmaier had a pair of shoes that were supposed to be worth $1000. In 1979 at the North American Championships in Canada, Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat) showed up at the equipment check with a pair of knee wraps make of jock strap waist bands. The IPF ref looked at them and said he couldn't wear them. They were twice as thick as normal wraps. But Fred won the argument and proceeded to break Ron Collins world record squat."
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:50 AM   #10
Neal Winkler
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Dave, but what if I made a powerlifting federation that allowed the robot arms, and like I said, you still had to be strong to use them.

For example, in my new powerlifting federation you get to use robot legs, and the robot legs allow you to get out of them what you put in. Let's say they increase your strength by 10 times, so someone that can squat 800 pounds raw can now squat 8000#, and someone that squat 900# raw can now squat 9000#. Therefore, you still have to be strong and put in hard work to win the competition but what the hell was the point of using the damn robot legs?

If you agree that my new powerlifting federation is silly, then you must follow this to it's logical conclusion - squat suits and bench suits are pointless too.

Now, I am willing to follow all this to it's logical conclusion, because I try to be as honest with myself as I can. Let me take down some other sports too.

For example, creating track shoes and manipulating the tracks themselves to make people run faster is silly for the same reason powerlifting suits are silly. What the hell do I care that you took .01 seconds off the world record 100m time? You didn't do it!!! You're shoes did, or the new tracks did! Or, maybe you in fact did do it... but we'll never know will we?!?!?!?!

Hey swimmer guys and gals, yeah, I'm talking to you now. Wow, congradulations, you have a new body suit that allows you to glide through he water like a shark, wow, you're so awesome to circumvent true human potential like that, it must make you feel special.

I could go on but I digress.

Here's what needs to be done to save sport:

1) Go back to ancient greece style and make everyone be naked.

or a better option...

2) Make a standard set of rules that have clothing/environment minimize performance enhancement, and stick to them so long as sport exists so that records can truely be compared accross time.
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