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Old 11-03-2007, 03:28 PM   #1
Heidi Anschultz
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Default The truth of long-term WD-type fasting

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Old 11-03-2007, 04:03 PM   #2
Stuart Mather
Join Date: Oct 2006
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G'day Heidi, what I like most about IF is the improved body comp with slightly less resistance exercise than I was doing over a four year stretch with low carb only (which itself was a substantial improvement on mod/high 'healthy, complex/unprocessed carbs' previously). Warrior dieters who snack throughout the day are not really intermittently fasting anyway. And Ori himself doesn't seem to have a clue about the health/body comp benefits of carb restriction. I've no idea to what extent he personally snacks during the day. But the muscle growth gene expression/hgh boosting effect of going for longer without food is not going to be as high if you're 'soft plateauing' these mechanisms by not eliminating calorie intake altogether.

And as I think might have been mentioned to you in an earlier post, the tripartite approach to efficient muscle growth of IF/adequate protein and EFA's/ regular intense resistance exercise truly is an effective strategy. But you can't miss out one element and expect the others to take up the slack. You've mentioned that your study committments make resistance exercise difficult. Maybe so, Heidi, but even the busiest person in the world can manage a daily 10 minute body weight resistance program. You can do it anywhere/anytime/ wearing whatever you have on. But it will only work (in that short time frame) if you do it with an intensity that you may not have even imagined you were capable of. At the end of that 10 minutes, you really should feel as if you muscles are going to dissolve.

It's only ten minutes. Your muscle glycogen reserves won't even come close to being exhausted, even if you eat zero carbohydrate.

Muscles simply will not grow unless you work them, even if you do eat enough protein and intermittently fast. Give it a go. You'll be amazed. And FWIW it will also enhance cognitive function.

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Old 11-03-2007, 09:45 PM   #3
Jordan Glasser
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Originally Posted by Heidi Anschultz View Post

So my question that I hope does not get me banned from this forum is this: does the warrior diet or intermittent fasting cause loss of muscle? Aside from the "health benefits" of intermittent fasting, why would it be a good thing to be wasting away neck muscle, organ muscle, etc. other muscles that you cannot in any way consciously train on a regular basis?
Maybe I am oversimplifying things here..... If you are wasting away, as per the question above, then there is something wrong, no matter what the diet is. The results that are sought after by IF or warrior diet are intended to increase lean muscle mass and or body composition, any other result would be indicative of a diet that simply isn't working.

The answer to your question, IMO, no it should not. Some muscle loss perhaps, but only to a point, wasting away, not at all a goal of any diet.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:56 AM   #4
Derek Simonds
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I had lunch with Scotty Hagnas a couple of weeks ago and I can tell you in no uncertain terms there is no wasting away on him at all! Dude is ripped and he is one of the earliest adopters of the IF / Paleo protocol I know.
What we think, or what we know, or what we believe, is in the end, of little consequence. The only thing of consequence is what we do. -John Ruskin

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Old 11-04-2007, 04:35 AM   #5
Steve Liberati
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Muslce loss? Sure, that is if you don't eat enough calories at the end of a fast or make up for it the on the following 'feed' day. I can certainly see this being an issue on the Warrior Diet. Too few calories.

However, with an IF schedule most follow here, enough calories are consumed after/before the 20 hour fast.

It really depends on your total calorie intake at the end of the day. Every other day I fast until 5 pm. 5 pm on, I'll have 2-3 meals giving me a total of around 19-20 blocks. If I fall short, I simply make up for it the next 'feed' day.
Not sure how you would make that work on the warrior diet? I would think 20 blocks in one GIANT meal would be nearly impossible (not like I was ever that brave to try it anyway).
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:58 PM   #6
Mike ODonnell
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Eat enough protein and don't overtrain...you will not lose muscle. If you want to look like a bodybuilder, it's about training more fast twitch IIb fibers for increased size and glycogen loading. Plenty of lean people have more strength and explosiveness and don't need to look like a BB to perform.

Heidi you have asked this question before, so my advice is see a local professional physician if you feel you are losing muscle tissue while still eating a ton of protein/calories. There may be other health issues going on. Don't continue using the IF approach if it is NOT working for you, that defeats the purpose. Unless you can monitor all variables routinely and find what works, don't just guess and make no changes and continue down a road of ill-health
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:38 AM   #7
Yvana van den Hork
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Heidi, I've personally tried to go back to my old ways of skipping breakfast & lunch and then only eat after 5pm.. but dropped the idea after just 2 days as my body just literally FROZE!
Then dabbled with 2 meals a day = breakfast @ 10am and dinner at 10pm for over a month, nah, maintenance dropped on it: added fruit which helped immensely.
But the actual diet that pleases me most of all and has sped up fat loss once again was
10am: breakfast 1-2hrs after rising
4 or 5-6pm: egg-based meal @ 4pm when I train, otherwise a protein-rich salad
6-8pm: a slowcarb drink when training, sometimes some extra carbs when I feel really tired upon returning home.
10-11pm : a heavier meal , with extra carbs the night before training (switched from eating more after training as this gives better performance)

So, there's 2 distinct non-eating windows. One at night that's nearly 12 hrs and another one that's somewhere between 6 and 10 hrs, depending on whether I'm rising early or not. I'm self-employed and mostly work at whatever time pleases me. Sometimes I wake up early, other times extremely late, like today since I've slept 11hrs (am ill).

My figuring is that most will benefit from lowered blood sugar levels and hence somewhat better body recomposition during the fasting period. And indeed, so do I. But the fact that you're fasting for 16-20 hours or longer makes you run more on adrenalin and less on food as fuel . I've been diagnosed as slightly hypothyroid and this explains most of the puzzle.
And this also seems to make me especially vulnerable to LBM loss. Despite high body fat levels, I lose excessive amounts of LBM once things don't go like they should go (overtraining, undereating by more than 15% etc.). This shouldn't happen, but it DOES.

So.. how about a sensible 3 meals a day, but just take out the energy-sapping lunch. Fasting DOES make me feel more alert, which I love.. and clearly is the reason why I used to do it all the time. But if all it does is lower your metabolism and you end up losing LBM instead of fat.. then it's not for YOU!
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diet: back to 3 square meals but skipping lunch = 2 short fasts.
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