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Old 05-01-2008, 12:46 PM   #1
Tirzah Harper
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Default Strategy for fat loss - questions

Iíd like to cut fat. Aesthetic reasons only, as my performance is increasing measurably and Iím feeling fine. What, you didnít think I was vain? Heck, Iím femaleÖwith the traditional female fat-deposit patterns, too.
I made it through a week and a half on the V-diet several weeks ago before I completely felt NOT WELL and called it off. Health first, vanity second, right? So I pretty promptly filled right back in what I had lost.
Since then, Iíve been emphasizing whole and unprocessed foods a la Michael Pollan; taking it easy on sugar and flour; but basically just eating without counting or anything. If it werenít for vanity, Iíd be fine! I feel great! I also started eating breakfast first thing again vs. waiting until nearly noon.
IFíing seems to affect me the same way it does George Mounce, in terms of slowing down my metabolism (5í4Ē, f, 112 lbs give or take a couple; Iíd like to lose at least five lbs. of bodyfat but not more than eight, probably. Iím not a mesomorph!).

I have a few limiting factors that I recognize:
One, Iím a foodie and I like to eat with my friends & family. So strict diet 100% of the time is doomed to failure. Strict diet 75% of the time would be tough but doable.
Two, I donít have the patience for Zoning when cooking for more than just me.
Three, I Ė did I mention lack of patience? Ė tend to lose hope quickly and give up on an eating pattern, probably before I really give it time (more than a couple of weeks) to notice results.
Four, I donít tend to notice results very well, as Iím not very food-sensitive or one of those people who can tell an extra half-pound anywhere on their body. I tend to go along obliviously and then do a double-take one day when I look in the mirror. I also can get away with eating a lot of junk without feeling bad, except for missing fresh & raw foods. This isnít a good thing.
Iím also mostly vegetarian, which actually doesnít seem to have any effect on my performance that Iíve noticed: I made gains while eating meat, and Iím making gains not eating meat.

Based on the above, any advice?
I plan to continue with whole + unprocessed + keeping sugars and flours intake low. Iím also planning to add in homemade kefir to my diet! Yum!
Iím thinking about eating in Zone proportions until dinner (breakfast, lunch, snack, with a little extra fat to stave off hunger) and then just going with whole + unprocessed then. Iím not sure if this is enough to make a difference (thatís six blocks plus dinner; Iíd be a ten-blocker doing strict Zone) or how long I should give it before re-evaluating how well it works.

I'm doing CF workouts approximately 4 times per week and adding in walking and running as I can (2-5 times per week, a couple miles maybe) to help with my very sedentary jobs.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:17 PM   #2
Mike ODonnell
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Keep it simple...

- Eat the right foods for the right hormonal responses for fat burning
- Eat less calories to have a deficit daily
- Drink only water with lemon (no diet drinks)
- Don't overtrain...more is not better
- Keep a slower aerobic based active lifestyle (walking, hiking, etc...what does not promote excessive cortisol and muscle breakdown and can be done on a lower cal diet...jogging is not it)
- Lower carb/Mod protein and fat eating works best....for a reason
- Keep workouts short and intense 2-3x a week
- Enjoy your meals and if you need a "cheat" meal once a week...then do it...but once you eat for health and not emotional needs and wants...you may not need this...it's more a mental thing so you don't feel deprived...but it doesn't hit the key reason of food should be viewed for health first
- Eat for your hunger...if it's all the right foods you won't gain weight...if it's the wrong foods you WILL
- Eat healthy for fat loss before you even start attempt something like IF...as IFOC (IF on crap) will not work
- Remember slow and steady wins the race and looks the best! Quick solutions do nothing for lifestyle habbits (the danger of ANY diet)...and usually lead to a high % of people just gaining it all back
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 05-01-2008 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:41 PM   #3
Tirzah Harper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
Keep it simple...

- Eat the right foods for the right hormonal responses for fat burning
OK, going to read the article.
Quote:
- Eat less calories to have a deficit daily
yeah...dammit
Quote:
- Drink only water with lemon (no diet drinks)
No diet drinks. Ever. Coffee a few times a week, tea a few times daily - working to wean off the honey & milk.
Quote:
- Don't overtrain...more is not better
- Keep a slower aerobic based active lifestyle (walking, hiking, etc...what does not promote excessive cortisol and muscle breakdown and can be done on a lower cal diet...jogging is not it)
- Lower carb/Mod protein and fat eating works best....for a reason
- Keep workouts short and intense 2-3x a week
OK MODÖnow Iím going to be skeptical.
The leanest person I know works in a hard physical job five days a week and eats a fairly high-carb, low-protein diet. He feels good, looks good, and holds up well.
I honestly donít think that Ė unless I spent most evenings walking, all evening Ė I would get good results from short, high-intensity workouts ONLY 2-3 times per week. Iíve been doing that all winter (well, up to 4-5 times per week on occasion) and I put on weightÖbut then, I also wasnít doing much walking/hiking.
Quote:
- Enjoy your meals and if you need a "cheat" meal once a week...then do it...but once you eat for health and not emotional needs and wants...you may not need this...it's more a mental thing so you don't feel deprived...but it doesn't hit the key reason of food should be viewed for health first
- Eat for your hunger...if it's all the right foods you won't gain weight...if it's the wrong foods you WILL
- Eat healthy for fat loss before you even start attempt something like IF...as IFOC (IF on crap) will not work
these three things sound like I've been working towards, except I'm eating crap considerably more often than once a week, but less often than ever before.
Quote:
- Remember slow and steady wins the race and looks the best! Quick solutions do nothing for lifestyle habbits (the danger of ANY diet)...and usually lead to a high % of people just gaining it all back
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:50 PM   #4
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper View Post
The leanest person I know works in a hard physical job five days a week and eats a fairly high-carb, low-protein diet. He feels good, looks good, and holds up well.
Bingo....you don't have that activity level to burn off constant influx of carbs...so really no comparison. You have to tailor your intake to YOUR lifestyle...so eat less carbs or up the activity....and notice his is a slower steady pace all day....as no one can sustain and recover from constant high intensity activity for long periods of time every day....brief periods of exertion maybe...but not consistent.

Side note: Skinny people can get diabetes, heart disease, inflammation issues, cancer and many other illnesses (I have seen it first hand with some people I have worked with). So just being "skinny" doesn't mean that a person's diet is not leading down a road of illness and diseases....the #1 enemy being sugar (from processed unnatural sources). Sugar = high insulin levels = increasing insulin resistance = increasing chronic inflammation = increasing risks of heart diseases = cell health compromise = cancer growth/spread = ....well you get the picture.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 05-01-2008 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:52 PM   #5
Tirzah Harper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
- Keep a slower aerobic based active lifestyle (walking, hiking, etc...what does not promote excessive cortisol and muscle breakdown and can be done on a lower cal diet...jogging is not it)
- Lower carb/Mod protein and fat eating works best....for a reason
- Keep workouts short and intense 2-3x a week
You might have already explained this, but I missed it if you did.
Why does the "more is better" NOT apply here? If walking frequently is good, why wouldn't running be? If metcon workouts 2-3x/week are good, why not 4-5x provided that I'm feeling fine?
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Old 05-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #6
Tom Rawls
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Tizrah--

Have a look at the recent articles on Lyle McDonald's blog.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/blog/

His argument runs counter to what you usually see advocated here and on related sites.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:04 PM   #7
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Tizrah--

Have a look at the recent articles on Lyle McDonald's blog.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/blog/

His argument runs counter to what you usually see advocated here and on related sites.
Well, not really. He obviously uses them and has stated as such. The main point(s) he was trying to make is that they are not the be all end all type of exercise.

However, I do think that is wrong. So take it for what it's worth. You get more bang for your buck with metcon/HIIT/tabata/etc. than 'aerobic' cardio/LSD per time put in *WITH* a regulated diet and sleep schedule.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:50 AM   #8
Allen Yeh
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Getting bang for your buck is great. At the same time from personal experience while in a caloric deficit and hitting the weights hard I have 0 energy left for any metcon/HIIT/tabata type protocols after the session.

Looking at my past the leanest I had ever gotten being a naturally more endomorphic bodytype was doing fasted cardio first thing in the morning. Am I saying this is what everyone should do? Heck no. Would I have been leaner if I had been doing metcon/HIIT/tabata type protocols in place of my cardio? I don't know.

/hijack
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:11 AM   #9
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper View Post
You might have already explained this, but I missed it if you did.
Why does the "more is better" NOT apply here? If walking frequently is good, why wouldn't running be? If metcon workouts 2-3x/week are good, why not 4-5x provided that I'm feeling fine?
Loads of varaibles....like what is running? (jogging? sprints?) How is your recovery? What do you eat (high carb/low carb), How intense are your workouts, what are the workout volumes, etc..etc...etc. Cortisol is the one thing you don't want to elevate too high as it is catabolic and wastes muscle. Walking will not get cortisol high...where as aerobic HR zones will after 45min.

Most people just do too much, where I say quality is better than quantity. In the case of more "slow go" cardio...aka walking, hiking, etc....most people can handle a high work load of that....or as I like to call it an active lifestyle...and not rebound into overeating to recover or feeling wiped and not being consistent with it.

HIIT vs Slow and steady cardio....it all works and depends largely on the diet and how many calories you are eating to recover from the workouts. Fasted AM slow cardio is a good way to burn fat while not losing muscle....it all works to some degree. The nutritional variables and daily calorie intake are are more important with each program. You can low carb and do slow cardio....or you can do intervals and eat zone. Lyle's clients see results....CF people see results....many different ways to skin the fat cat.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 05-07-2008 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:03 PM   #10
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Why does the "more is better" NOT apply here?

Recovery is the wildcard. MOD is correct, at a certain point, long slow cardio is indistinguishable from NEPA (non excercise physical activity) because it requires little or no recovery.
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