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Old 07-15-2009, 12:13 PM   #1
james forshaw
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Default Mass - Texas Method

Is TM a good way for someone with slow lifts in and around the "advanced" category to gain lean mass? My main concern is that, as opposed to SS, there is only one day per week where a lot of volume is done.

Would some extra heavy clean pulls/clean shrugs, front/back squats on the intensity day be a good idea, or do you think it'd just interfere with how TM works? Or (as my gut is suggesting) should I just leave it as it is and do the programme? I know exactly what it takes nutritionwise, so no problems on that front.
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:03 PM   #2
Dave Van Skike
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did you read the Rip's book or are you going off of soem web based write up?

By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit. By the time you're advanced they've virtually stopped unless you were starving yourself for a weight class or are piggin your way out of one.
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:30 PM   #3
Harry Munro
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TM works, well - one volume day a week is enough for an intermediate lifter to make progress. Buy practical programming.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:15 AM   #4
james forshaw
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Quote:
did you read the Rip's book or are you going off of soem web based write up?

By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit. By the time you're advanced they've virtually stopped unless you were starving yourself for a weight class or are piggin your way out of one.
My info came from the SS wiki, and various sources including Stronglifts.com. I've done TM (recently) and worked up to a 160kg high bar squat (A2G), 95kg push press and 110kg clean whilst eating to maintain a bodyweight of 77kg. I don't think I need to buy PP as the idea of TM is simple to understand, and I know it works. It has worked for strength gains - but will it put mass on a high intermediate/advanced lifter?

I may be mistaken, but when you wrote:

Quote:
By the time you're ready for weekly progression, the "mass" gains have slowed a bit
I didn't actually mean 'mass gains' to mean large gains in strength. I mean actual gains in body mass.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by james forshaw View Post
I don't think I need to buy PP as the idea of TM is simple to understand, and I know it works. It has worked for strength gains - but will it put mass on a high intermediate/advanced lifter?
You are getting some concepts confused. In a programming context, novice/intermediate/advanced are concern stimulus:adaptation, not how much weight you can lift.

The value of a program goes beyond what is scribbled on a piece of paper. If, as you say, you understood the program and understood your nutrition, then you wouldn't be asking this question.

Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:57 AM   #6
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Gant's correct. "How much weight you can lift" is just a fairly indirect method (and sometimes inaccurate way) of analyzing what level of ability you are at. Programming at various levels of "strength" concerns with stimulating certain adaptations through progressive overload. For novice/intermed/advanced/elite the progressive overload will be different based on the workouts because as you get stronger/bigger you encounter diminishing returns.

Someone who has naturally good genetics/recovery, diet, and can put max intensity in their sessions may have a larger "novice" period than someone who has a crappy diet, poor genetics, and has problems with intensity.

You need information to determine where someone goes from what they are currently.... of course dependent on goals.

Quote:
Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?
Answer these and we'll be able to help. Assuming your goals are gaining mass and strength, yes?
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
You are getting some concepts confused. In a programming context, novice/intermediate/advanced are concern stimulus:adaptation, not how much weight you can lift.

The value of a program goes beyond what is scribbled on a piece of paper. If, as you say, you understood the program and understood your nutrition, then you wouldn't be asking this question.

Bottom line- yes, the TM can add mass to an intermediate lifter, but there isn't enough information in your post to tell use whether you're there. What's your body comp now? How long have you been training? How long were you on linear progression? What is your mass gain history over the last 4-5 years?
I've always taken n/i/a to refer to the weightlifting standards - the table of bodyweight categories and the corresponding poundages you need to lift. Surely you can't blag your way to being advanced by that table, you can't get there by messing about.

I do understand nutrition Gant, and 77kg is where I've been for about 3 years (intentionally) whether doing Crossfit, your strength hybrid routine (awesome btw) or Texas Method. Tailored protein blocks, few carbs from f&v and enough fat for the remaining calories - no problems there. Mass gain is new territory for me though, and why I need advice.
History is this: age 18, I blindly ate loads of tuna pasta and drank even more whey, did sets of 12-8 and went up to around 75kg from god knows what (probably 70kg). Age 19, found Crossfit, age 20 discovered why nutrition was important and for the last 3 years pretty much stayed at 77kg via zone diet and more recently Robb Wolf's 42ways. Most of my "mass gain" was probably just the end of my normal growth from a boy into a man.

From 3 years(ish) CF training and stuff resembling your hybrid routine, I had a 140kg squat, 180kg deadlift, 100kg clean, 70kg press - not to mention about five sub-3 minute Frans (a very small example of metcon ability, granted). Texas Method earlier this year (5 or 6 weeks) everything increased to 160, 190, 110, 75 respectively. Is this enough to answer the question of where I am?

The only reason I'm asking is because TM is a very fun programme to do. It motivates me long-term (something I've had problems with recently), and I have very recent, first-hand experience that it increases strength very tangeably. If I can put on weight, then I'd love to do it this way. If not, then it'll have to be another programme.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:21 PM   #8
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james forshaw View Post
My info came from the SS wiki, and various sources including Stronglifts.com. I've done TM (recently) and worked up to a 160kg high bar squat (A2G), 95kg push press and 110kg clean whilst eating to maintain a bodyweight of 77kg. I don't think I need to buy PP as the idea of TM is simple to understand, and I know it works. It has worked for strength gains - but will it put mass on a high intermediate/advanced lifter?

I may be mistaken, but when you wrote:



I didn't actually mean 'mass gains' to mean large gains in strength. I mean actual gains in body mass.
this strikes me as a ridiculous question now that i re-read the thread. forget my earlier message.

if you are truly walking around at sub 10% bf and doing 3 days a week of strenght training in a format as described, you should already know if you're getting bigger or not.

good luck with whatever it is your doing there.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
this strikes me as a ridiculous question now that i re-read the thread. forget my earlier message.

if you are truly walking around at sub 10% bf and doing 3 days a week of strenght training in a format as described, you should already know if you're getting bigger or not.

good luck with whatever it is your doing there.
How is it a ridiculous question? I did TM a few months ago (only relatively recently) with the expressed intention to get stronger but stay at the same weight, which I've already mentioned. Mass gain didn't come into it. So I knew I was NOT getting bigger.

You may think it as a ridiculous question, but I'm a true newbie when it comes to mass gain. I have quite a bit of experience with CF, strength training, eating to support GPP, fat loss and suchlike, but not putting on weight because I've never tried to do it in any systematic way.

Can you not see my concern? Eating a massive calorie excess and doing only one volume session a week - obviously weight will be added, but in my mind most will be fat for this very reason. Unless working up to one set of a 3RM in my chosen exercises on the intensity day will also be an adequate stimulus to add lean mass?

I'm sorry if I'm irking some people here (it feels like it). But I'm not prepared to invest time and money (only milk money, but still) into a programme unless I have a clear vision of what the outcome is going to be.
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