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Old 02-10-2007, 01:07 PM   #1
Rick Deckart
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 557
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Shaf, you hit the nail on the head and took the words out of my mouth...


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Old 02-10-2007, 02:51 PM   #2
Steve Shafley
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,285

Thanks Peter.

The whole thing has seriously spiraled out of control, with those falling in on the GS side taking a much more reasonable and rationale approach, and the "Hardstyle" folks basically just running on emotion.

That's what's nice about competition. The best damn form will eventually when out with the best competitors adopt it because of the efficiency and elegance of movement.

And, the real problem isn't with the "grinds" or the "ballistics", it's with the HS folks insisting that HS style is better for their needs for whatever damn reason, while ignoring the need for efficient and biomechanically correct movement, ESPECIALLY in a sport like GS, where you are performing an astonishing number of repetitions in a set time period, and efficiency is important.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:44 PM   #3
Steve Shafley
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I've been thinking about it more, and come into more of a middle position. Not that I refute much of my first post, but I do ease up on some of the other stuff I posted in that thread.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:33 AM   #4
Rick Deckart
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 557

Hi Shaf,

I still find your original post accurate, lifting and strength training in general should be done with the most efficient technique in my opinion and one should always use the minimum energy necessary to do the job. An article of JV Askem comes into my mind where he puts it nicely with repect to one aspect of the Oly lifts:


Overpowering is always bad, even if it doesn't lead to injury in the short term, you have a long road to go and it will tax you more than necessary.

I have the highest respect for GS practioners, and I am curious what the amount of volume some of the professionals move around does to them in terms of absolute strength. For example Fedorenkos 132 KB Jerks with 32kg bells, that's 8448kg in 10 minutes, one rep every 4-5 seconds... I am curious how much he deadlifts, squats etc.


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Old 02-12-2007, 06:05 PM   #5
Catherine Imes
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 69

Hi Peter,

Valery can deadlift 230kg pretty much anytime he wants (at a BW of less than 80kg). He's got a one arm deadlift that's pretty good too (can't remember how much).

I watched him easily bottoms up press a 32kg KB for reps. He can Jerk 2/48kg KBs 32 times in around 6 minutes (without setting them down). I've seen him one arm Jerk 2/32kg KBs. I'm not sure how much he can squat.

Regarding HS and GS. Hardstyle is a marketing term in my opinion. I just went back and read Enter the Kettlebell (Pavel's latest work). I looked at the Index for "Hardstyle" and couldn't find it. They HS practicioners will mention Compression, Rooting, Linkage, but these are terms that are not specific to KB training (probably have roots in martial arts and in fact Steve Cotter introduced rooting as a way to teach the kb lifts). They are viable techniques, that even GS athletes use..But, they only use the necessary amount/right proportions to bring the KB overhead because as you know, they are going to be doing that for 10 minutes.

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