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Old 07-31-2010, 07:47 PM   #1
Daniel Gam
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Default whey protein?

does supplementing with whey protein help with mass gain if i'm already eating 1g of protein / lb of BW? i'm looking for other alternatives to help gain weight without eating uncomfortably large quantities of solid food.
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:45 PM   #2
Donald Lee
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Nope.

If you do want to supplement though, a casein/whey mix is better. You can get milk isolate from trueprotein.com.

And, most people only really need to eat about 20% more than normal to gain mass.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:29 AM   #3
Darryl Shaw
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The protein requirements of strength athletes in regular training are 1-1.4g/kg/d which is only slightly greater than that of the general population and is easily met by almost any diet that provides adequate calories. Protein in excess of this amount is oxidized and used as fuel so in most cases protein supplements are just an expensive source of calories.

If you're having trouble eating enough to gain weight then peanut butter, honey and banana smoothies (or similar) would be a cheaper and healthier alternative to supplements.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:10 PM   #4
Derek Weaver
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Darryl,
Where do you get your values from? I've seen everything from a similar range that you suggest, being closer to .6-1 gram per pound, all the way up to .8 as a minimum up to 1.5 grams/lb (closing in on 3.5 g/kg/day).

The two better sources I've seen are Lyle and Martin. Lyle researched an entire book on the subject of protein intake, and Martin is pretty meticulous with his research and writing on his site, and I'd assume on the book that's coming out someday.

To address the OP though, excess protein intake, regardless of health, tends to show diminishing returns. Through anecdotal evidence only, it seems that most do well around 1 gram/lb, occasionally a touch more.

You will only put on mass/weight through eating more and lifting progressively heavier weights.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:47 PM   #5
Donald Lee
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From what I have gathered here and there, as I don't have a formal education in this stuff yet, the technology for determining totally accurate minimal protein requirements or recommended optimal intake is not there yet. Based on the evidence, some people throw out numbers like Darryl's and some people throw out numbers like Lyle's. There isn't much wrong with erring on the side of eating a bit too much protein (if at least 1 g/lb LBM/day is really too much), unless it's costing you a ton of money.

If you really feel like it, you could just test it out on yourself.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #6
Derek Weaver
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Agreed. Brad Pilon notes that it's possible to build muscle without large amounts of protein, but still prefers diets a bit higher in protein than the recommended daily amounts we get here in the U.S. from the government.

From an enjoyment factor, as well as satiety, I prefer higher protein intakes. Higher carbs second, enough fat last.
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:52 AM   #7
Darryl Shaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Darryl,
Where do you get your values from? I've seen everything from a similar range that you suggest, being closer to .6-1 gram per pound, all the way up to .8 as a minimum up to 1.5 grams/lb (closing in on 3.5 g/kg/day).

The two better sources I've seen are Lyle and Martin. Lyle researched an entire book on the subject of protein intake, and Martin is pretty meticulous with his research and writing on his site, and I'd assume on the book that's coming out someday.

To address the OP though, excess protein intake, regardless of health, tends to show diminishing returns. Through anecdotal evidence only, it seems that most do well around 1 gram/lb, occasionally a touch more.

You will only put on mass/weight through eating more and lifting progressively heavier weights.
Most of the popular sports nutrition books such as Anita Bean's and Nancy Clark's recommend a protein intake of 1.2-1.8g/kg of LBM/d which covers the needs of pretty much every athlete. The heavyweight texts like Exercise Physiology: Human Bioenergetics and it's Application by Brooks, Fahey and Baldwin, Exercise Physiology: Energy Nutrition and Human Performance by McArdle, Katch and Katch and Clinical Sports Nutrition by Louise Burke give the same basic recommendation but break things down into more detail.

The two studies they all cite on this are Tarnopolsky et al (1988) and Tarnopolsky et al(1992) which show that nitrogen balance is maintained in strength/power athletes with protein intakes of 1-1.4g/kg/d and that endurance athletes have the greatest protein requirements.

In practice you don't need to be too concerned with your protein intake though because any reasonably varied diet will contain all the protein you need without the use of supplements providing your calorie intake is adequate. I underlined that last part because it's important to remember that calories are the most critical ingredient in any weight gain program because a negative energy balance will always result in a negative nitrogen balance regardless of how much protein you eat.

Last edited by Darryl Shaw : 12-29-2010 at 04:46 AM. Reason: fixed link
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:54 AM   #8
Paul Epstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
The protein requirements of strength athletes in regular training are 1-1.4g/kg/d which is only slightly greater than that of the general population and is easily met by almost any diet that provides adequate calories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
However as protein in excess of 1.8-2g/kg/d is oxidized to provide energy all that additional meat is doing really is providing the extra calories required for growth.
im confused by the discrepancy here. you say that only 1.4g/kg/d is required but then excess above 2g/kg/d is simply used as excess calories...

what happens between 1.4 to 2 g/kg/d?
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:14 AM   #9
John Alston
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That mediocre level encouraged mediocre results.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:24 AM   #10
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Paul Epstein View Post
im confused by the discrepancy here. you say that only 1.4g/kg/d is required but then excess above 2g/kg/d is simply used as excess calories...

what happens between 1.4 to 2 g/kg/d?
There is no discrepancy, protein in excess of requirements is oxidised to provide energy.

If for example a bodybuilder or strength/power athlete ate 1.6gPRO/kg/d when they only required 1.2g/kg/d then 0.4g/kg/d of protein would be broken down to provide energy.

I think what you're missing here though is that people such as elite endurance athletes, pregnant or lactating women, children/teenagers, the elderly, people with low energy intakes etc may require up to 2gPRO/kg/d which is far in excess of what any bodybuilder or strength/power athlete in regular training would need.
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