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Old 06-10-2011, 07:53 AM   #1
Hans Mustermann
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Default fat during undereating?

Hello everybody, this is my first post. About two months ago, I started practicing IF, and I hope some of you are willing to give me a hand with the fine-tuning.

Up to now, I have organized it as follows: Only tea and coffee for about 18 hours of the day, then two larger meals in the remaining 6 hours (usually lunch and dinner).

One of my aims was reducing body fat, and that has already been accomplished. I'm somewhere around 10% now, which is where I want to be.

I still plan to stick with IF and make it part of my regular diet due to the numerous health and longevity advantages associated with this practice.

Now, on to my question. I have read the book "Perfect Health Diet" by Paul Jaminet (won't post a link in my first thread), which also addresses IF. The author claims that it is perfectly acceptable to eat fat during the fasting phase, and that only carbs and protein have to be avoided. He specifically recommends virgin coconut oil, and also leafy vegetables which only contain negligible amounts of carbs and protein.

It's clear that adding lots of coconut oil to IF will make it a less potent weight-loss tool, but as I've said, this is not my objective any more. In case of adopting this idea, I'd keep the total calories constant and just spread them out more.

It sounds logical that fat consumption will not influence insulin levels, and therefore many of the postive health effects of IF (improved insulin sensitivity etc.) could still apply.

On the other hand, I take "fasting" to mean severely reducing one's energy intake, and that just doesn't go together with downing ounces of coconut oil!

So, what do you think of the idea to consume fat (specifically coconut oil) during undereating? Will it decrease the value of IF even if overall calories are kept constant?

How do you manage undereating phases? Do you eat any food at all, or just stick to non-caloric drinks?
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:30 AM   #2
Kevin Perry
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The main point of IF is just that, your not consuming calories at all during the fasted period. Once you consume calories then the fast is over.

During the fasted phase you can curb hunger pangs through coffee, tea, water, sugar free gum, etc. I usually go through a couple cups of coffee with a dash of milk and splenda. But no major calories until its time to break the fast.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #3
Donald Lee
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I'd try to increase your feeding window to 8 hours, if you can.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:58 AM   #4
Hans Mustermann
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Kevin, Donald, thanks for your replies.

Intuitively, the idea of eating calorie-rich foods (whatever the macronutrient breakdown) during fasting seems like cheating to me, and your feedback supports these suspicions.

If a lot of fat is consumed during "fasting", the result might be closer to a low-carb, ketogenic diet, which could still offer some health benefits for specific issues. But to me it sounds improbable that the full range of effects associated with IF still applies.

My eating window usually is somewhere between five and seven hours long, and this works pretty well. I don't find myself especially hungry at the end of the fast (around noon). By that time, I have already surpassed my low point (mid-morning).

With the warrior diet and alternate day fasting, I have read about people consuming low-calorie foods during the undereating phase. Do any of you practice this, or is the best way really to stick to zero calories?
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #5
Donald Lee
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I don't really like either the Warrior Diet or alternate day fasting.

There is no need for an undereating phase within a day, except for cases where the person really cannot handle fasting. Then, the person should shorten the fasting window, consume caffeine, or abandon intermittent fasting.

One of the reasons daily IF works so well is because our bodies adjust to our eating patterns, so we usu. don't get very hungry during our fasting windows. Unusual stressors can throw that out of wack though. Also, the longer we fast the greater the percentage of our energy expenditure comes from amino acids, which is why a 14-16 hour fasting window is ideal.

Hans, if you haven't already, you should go and read all the articles over at www.leangains.com.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:28 PM   #6
Hans Mustermann
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Donald, thanks for the further clarification.

Actually, the leangains site aroused my initial interest in IF, and my current approach is quite similar. In the above posts, I have used the terms "fasting" and "undereating" synonymously, which I see now is incorrect. Up to now I have done strict fasting, and not undereating.

I will stick to a fixed daily eating window then, and experiment with my pre-fasting food choices in order to minimize feelings of hunger during the fast.
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