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Old 09-05-2007, 12:34 PM   #21
Greg Everett
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nice study. thanks. Robb and I just had a conversation about this kind of thing yesterday.
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:56 PM   #22
-Ross Hunt
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Like in the video just posted to the CF main site about technique vs. intensity, I see the two as complimentary. Proper or correct movement is exactly that because it is the most biomechanically efficient movement pattern to complete the task. As you fatigue, you must rely on proper form just to move the weight.

I believe that the statement that I have set in bold is misleading. Yes, you must optimize 'proper' technique to move weight. But the proper technique for max total power output with 135 pounds in 5 minutes, e.g., is absolutely not the same as the proper technique to get peak power output with a maximal weight (e.g., 195-205 pounds).

This is obvious at the most simple level in the comparison of the power and the squat lifts. The most efficient way to clean 135x30 is to power them all. The discrepancy becomes glaringly obvious in the case of the snatch. You don't do Isabel fast by keeping your hips low, not breaking the back angle until the bar comes past the knee, and getting a perfect third pull. You do it by starting with your hips a bit higher, shooting them a bit during the pull, and jumping your feet out wide because you sure as heck aren't going to squat snatch the thing anyway.

To make this a bit clearer: It is 'most efficient' to throw every muscle into you've got into a max oly lift, and that means using proper olympic technique. In the context of metcon, it is most efficient to favor stronger muscle groups and shorten the total length of bar path per rep as much as possible. The most efficient bar path between floor and overhead for one 100% snatch is perfect squat snatch; the most efficient bar path between floor and overhead for 30 65% snatches is a sloppy power snatch.

For an even more dramatic example, consider Girevoy Sport technique, and its emphasis on relaxation and smoothness rather than speed and power.


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...If the groundwork is laid correctly, then you will not really revert to terrible form. We recently had a 190lb client do a 5:20 Grace with 30 pretty much textbook power cleans and push jerks.

Bottom line though, high rep O lifts are great at building silly levels of functional work capacity.
That's a pretty nice time; but he would probably go 4:50 by going sloppy.

But I don't want to ignore the forest for the trees here. I agree with what Robb said above; if you're not really interested in your oly technique, oly movements are great tools to have in your bag for metcon.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:01 PM   #23
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I totally agree, very well said.

The only thing is I would say it is more akin to hard-style KB lifting.

I also would say that athletes should be versed in pure "I'm going to the Olympics" form and what is necessary to complete a task. Which is why I emphasize "pure" technique first, then move into metcon with a barbell when it becomes necessary and possible to use that much weight. Our less experienced clients use dumbbells and kettlebells first.
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:10 AM   #24
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R0XX0RZ
I got the gist but what exactly does R0XX0RX stand for?
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:42 AM   #25
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It's leet (133t for true geeks) speak for "rocksors", i.e., "rocks like a madman," "rocks my socks off," "breakin off rocks like Barney Rubble" (actually it doesn't mean that, but who knows those lyrics?) or "this shit is the shit." I think you get the point.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:00 AM   #26
Mark Joseph Limbaga
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if you do them in good form and manage your fatigue properly, yeah its quite effective.
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:11 AM   #27
-Ross Hunt
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The only thing is I would say it is more akin to hard-style KB lifting.

... Our less experienced clients use dumbbells and kettlebells first.
I think that's right.

You can definitely get a huge metcon impact out of dumbbells and kettlebells, definitely out of proportion to their load; unilateral stuff is great for metcon because you can 'rest' one said and load the other, and eliminate most strength-endurance limitations just by switching sides like that. I lifted KBs before I oly-lifted. They're a great tool for beginners, especially when you have a lot of people to train at once.
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:02 AM   #28
Mark Fenner
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Since I've been overly quiet (just moved, started a new job, wife and child still in transition, etc., etc.) I figured I'd throw in my $0.02 that someone else has probably already mentioned:

For met-con, I'd generally prefer lower skill exercises. Power Olympic stuff might qualify (particularly if the exercisee isn't hyperextending the lower back every rep ... ugh). But, I'd really prefer to see kipping pull-ups, explosive push-ups, tabata style (front in particular) squats, stuff with a heavy medicine ball, kettlebells, just about anything bodyweight (including low-intensity plyos: bounding, leaping, skipping, etc.), bag work, wrestling, and field work (sprints, agility, etc.).

Regards,
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