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Old 01-29-2008, 07:59 PM   #1
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Default Question about getting into the hole in all squat movements....

Hello all,
I'm new to olympic lifting - a complete novice. Lots of years of powerlifting and strength training under my belt, so lots of bad habits to get rid of.

In any event, I'm trying to get better at getting into the hole with my squat cleans and my squat snatches - or full cleans and snatches would be a better way too look at it.

One of the things I'm finding myself wanting to do is pause at the bottom of each of my regular front squat and back squat workouts to get set before I ascend with the weight. I found myself doing that with my OHS's too.

Is this wise?

I know that I have to steady myself before I come out of the hole with a heavy squat clean. I've yet to get even remotely heavy with a full squat snatch. Most of my snatches are power snatches if not muscle snatches. But I'm learning.

I'm trying to find a more comfortable way of getting down with the weight.

Thanks in advance for any input.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:42 AM   #2
Robb Wolf
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Arden-
I think some focus on OHS and snatch balances will really help things. You likely have tons of pull but the comfort to pull under the bar will be a limiting factor and at some point a safety issue. Cleans can be worked from the high hang position and take those to the squat. Empty bar first, then some weight.
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Old 01-30-2008, 12:17 PM   #3
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
Arden-
I think some focus on OHS and snatch balances will really help things. You likely have tons of pull but the comfort to pull under the bar will be a limiting factor and at some point a safety issue. Cleans can be worked from the high hang position and take those to the squat. Empty bar first, then some weight.

thanks Rob,
You hit the nail on the nail on the head - it's a complete comfort issue for me. I'm doing both the exercises you suggested.

Today with my front squats, I paused at the bottom of each rep and I felt really solid with the rack. I'm not going to make a habit of it. But I know I do it when I do tall cleans and attempt to do squat cleans and full squat snatches.

Anytime the weight gets over a certain amount, I revert to my old self and do a reverse power curl with the clean and a muscle snatch. But I'm learning.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:47 PM   #4
Garrett Smith
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Tabata squats, focusing on speed (not a high score), helps with the quick "pull under", i.e. working on getting to one rep a second, even if only for a few reps. This will quickly build up.

This article may help as well.
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:32 PM   #5
Eva Claire Synkowski
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i think i asked a similar question to greg on the blog a few wks back. essentially, as the weight got anything above the my 80%, i would have a tendancy to power snatch. (more of an issue for me with the snatch, than the clean)

he suggested to grease the groove by doing tall snatches prior to each snatch. definitely helped. i actually did tall snatches, then high hang snatches (once the weight got too heavy for tall only) before every full snatch rep. once i got to 90%, i would just snatch.

on another note, i actually found the bulgarian cycle was quite helpful for this, in terms on getting very used to getting under a heavy load (80-90% 1rm)... frequently.
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:59 AM   #6
Gant Grimes
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Arden, I've only been at this a few weeks longer than you, and I've determined my problem is lack of balls. I thought I had them, but I don't.

It's actually starting to get better with both lifts. Getting reps at lower weights has helped with form and comfort when adding plates. I still pull a hell of a lot more than I can OHS right now, so power snatch is a necessity beyond 80% or so. Tall cleans and OHS are helping to bridge the gap.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:09 PM   #7
Arden Cogar Jr.
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DING!!!!DING!!!

That's my problem - lack of balls.

All the above will be implement into my routine.

I like the Tabata idea. I've been doin something similar to that with my kettlebell warm ups. But I'll expand on it.

I've noticed the following things since I've started this foray into olympic lifting:

1) my 7 year daughter has pounded my traps saying stuff like, "just making sure that's really you."
2) my hamstrings have become noticably larger - or more in proportion with my quads.
3) I can "sit into" a full squat position with my feet flat and my back straight for extended periods of time with no pain anywhere on ascent or descent.

Now, I just need to do (3) with weight and i'll be golden.

thanks everyone.

All the best,
Arden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
Arden, I've only been at this a few weeks longer than you, and I've determined my problem is lack of balls. I thought I had them, but I don't.

It's actually starting to get better with both lifts. Getting reps at lower weights has helped with form and comfort when adding plates. I still pull a hell of a lot more than I can OHS right now, so power snatch is a necessity beyond 80% or so. Tall cleans and OHS are helping to bridge the gap.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:05 AM   #8
Allen Yeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
DING!!!!DING!!!

That's my problem - lack of balls.
Yeah right.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:17 AM   #9
Tom Rawls
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Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
2) my hamstrings have become noticably larger - or more in proportion with my quads.
Arden--

This statement caught my eye. I've got a longstanding hamstring problem, and recently have begun focusing on the hamstrings to see if I could address it. What aspects of your recent training have hit your hamstrings so effectively?

thanx.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:20 PM   #10
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Originally Posted by Tom Rawls View Post
Arden--

This statement caught my eye. I've got a longstanding hamstring problem, and recently have begun focusing on the hamstrings to see if I could address it. What aspects of your recent training have hit your hamstrings so effectively?

thanx.

Tom,
Romanian Deadlifts, and pulling from the floor for the snatch and the clean. In addition to those movements (which I've been doing about 4 times a week for a while now), I've been doing a ton of kettlebells swings, snatches, and long cycle clean and jerk. I do most of my kettlebell work GS style on descent (relaxed, flowing) and Hard style on the ascent (concentrating on speed). The whole combination of these movements has really made my hammys more in balanced and stronger. I think?

All the best,
Arden
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