Comments on James Evans' Rugby article in the PMenu

[Steve Shafley]

It happens just like that too. The conk. The rub. The blood. The stitches.

Or the ref tells you "You have to go off?"

And you say "Bullshit! That was a legal hit! Why are you throwing me off?"

And he says "You're bleeding, asshole."

[Mark Madonna]

I have been eating Paleo mostly and I have read Paleo for Athletes.
My question related to this article, I want to perform the best I can in rugby for 80 minutes on Saturday. How should I eat? Paleo, Zone? I have been hearing talk that the low carbohydate diets<30% do not have high enough carbohydrates for demands of Rugby. I do not know where a source is for this, but if you want me to experiment this rugby season with paleo, I would give it a shot.

so to reiterate the question: How should I eat to perform the best I can in rugby?

[Robb Wolf]

Mark-
I think you will certainly some some glycogen in the muscles for those matches. I think Steve has mentioned using the anabolic diet during rugby but was typically carbed up for the games. Carb depletion can lead to a rebound increase in glycogen storage. This is likely what was in action.

I have been eating ~ Zone parameters of carbs but taking those in post workout and only after a glycogen depleting workout. If I am just doing some ring work on a given day I'm pretty much meats and veggies. This has been going well but I am doing nothing as demanding as 80 min of rugby.

Bottom line IMO is you need adequate glycogen on game (possibly practice?) day to optimize performance.

[James Evans]

I will happily put my hands up and admit that nutrition is not my strong point. There are people here (Robb, obviously) who will have far better advice so I'm not going to go down that path.

Couple of observations though:

I read something by the Welsh Rugby Union recently that dismissed the value of high protein/low carb diets like Atkins and the Zone. I don't have the piece to hand but that is pretty close to their gist.

This does not make this gospel.

Until a few years ago post match nutrition was a lamb vindaloo ("Yes sir, the vindaloo is indeed f*****g hot" - cod Indian accent) and 20 pints of lager. Obviously if you were French you favoured wine. And primitive sanitation. Professionalism brought in changes but aspects of change have been slow. You may get a guy who takes the skin off his chicken but still has ten pints on a Saturday night. At the other extreme you get someone like Neil Back who said he would have one beer a year and that was at Christmas. I read an interview with a guy last week and he said his flatmate Sean Perry (England scrum half) initially didn't have a clue about eating. Perry only turned professional at the age of 26/27 having worked as a welder. When it came to his turn to cook he would nip out for a Chinese takeaway. This is indicative of the fact that two thirds of the British population (conservative estimate) eat nothing but utter shit and know little about nutrition. But hey, we can alway laugh at America.

High carb diets (particularly pasta) are very prevalent. What the professional guys found was they couldn't physically eat enough pasta and protein so supplements are extremely common and companies like Maximuscle are very proud of their affiliation with various clubs and individual players.

In the UK 'Fatkins' is usually derided although still quite popular. I put this down mostly to misunderstanding. People buy the books and don't read them properly. I've heard of people believing they could eat as many cream cakes as they liked. Dismissal of this kind of diet is as likely to be down to ignorance as to scientific evidence.

I think you should have a good idea of what fires your engine. There are a hell of a lot of top level performers in this community who will rely on Paleo or Zone style diets and it is working for them. The WRU is suggesting that younger players should eat a sensible, traditional European style diet (I'm being deliberately vague) but I suggest you experiment with the information you have available here. The resources at your disposal are invaluable and you have contemporaries who are already involved in a long term experiment.

I will dig out a few rugby nutrional pieces when I have a moment just to give you a contrast.

[Mark Madonna]

James, Robb
Thanks

Robb, upping the glycogen I will do 24-48 hours before games, and I will read paleo for athletes again because I can't remember it from the first time.

I am hoping to be a little sluggish in practice from my body trying to burn fat at a higher rate than switching from glycogen to fat at practice. And then once my fat burning is up, I want to eat a lot of good carbs to fill up the glycogen stores 1-2 days before the game, then I would be better at burning fat and have full glycogen stores.

Are there any holes in my logic?

[Robb Wolf]

Sounds pretty solid to me. Folks want to train every day like it's "game day" and they start carb loading all the time. I think this is where the health problems occur. It is an interesting way to minimize intensity running on a lower carb training week. Keep us posted on the results! Make sure to get plenty of veggies during the week to shore up any potential problems with potassium/magnesium loss.