Mass and Strength - Page 2

Chris Bate · 07-04-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low

If you needed to stay a certain weight class it would be much slower (as strength goes up you get the logarithmic curve limiting your progress).

How exactly do strength adaptations work without increasing mass? Would this affect one's training program in any manner? If anyone has any links/knowledge about this I would be very greatful

. Don't really know where to start looking on my own :/

Sorry for thread hijack.

Mike ODonnell · 07-04-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low

If you needed to stay a certain weight class it would be much slower (as strength goes up you get the logarithmic curve limiting your progress).

Don't strength athletes do like the fighters do......train at 250....then diet down to 220 or whatever the weight class is before the event? I have no idea...but makes sense to train heavier for maximal strength...then drop down...as I doubt you will lose much strength in the process....

Steven Low · 07-04-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Bate

How exactly do strength adaptations work without increasing mass? Would this affect one's training program in any manner? If anyone has any links/knowledge about this I would be very greatful

. Don't really know where to start looking on my own :/

Sorry for thread hijack.

http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/r.../01/neural.cfm

There are maybe one or two they didn't cover but this is pretty much all encompassing. If you're not sure what one of them is/does google it... before you ask here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell

Don't strength athletes do like the fighters do......train at 250....then diet down to 220 or whatever the weight class is before the event? I have no idea...but makes sense to train heavier for maximal strength...then drop down...as I doubt you will lose much strength in the process....

Yep. Generally better to do it that way...

Greg Everett · 07-06-2008, 10:16 PM

Chris -

I assume what Steven posted answered your question. In short, neurological adaptation to improve force production capacity.

Mike -

Not in O-lifting really. Athletes weigh in 2 hrs before lifting - not enough time to rehydrate well if really cutting. Fighters usually have 24 hrs or so and can drop huge numbers and regain comfortably.

Mike ODonnell · 07-07-2008, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Everett

Mike -

Not in O-lifting really. Athletes weigh in 2 hrs before lifting - not enough time to rehydrate well if really cutting. Fighters usually have 24 hrs or so and can drop huge numbers and regain comfortably.

Greg, didn't mean they cut and "regain" like fighters to get around the "weight" class issue. Just was seeing if say an Oly lifter would train at like 250lbs (knowing they were stronger and could train heavier), but then cut down for the competition at say like 225lbs (just guessing numbers). Would that person have an advantage in increased strength and power output from training at a highter weight then say had they trained at 225lbs all year long?

Greg Everett · 07-07-2008, 09:59 AM

Some athletes train heavy during the year, but the numbers are smaller. More like 5 lbs over for the most part. If the cut can't be done through de- and rehydration, it will definitely cut strength as well. One of the reasons to train heavy though is purely psychological - these guys can go onto the platform to lift a record weight having already lifted it (overweight).

Dave Van Skike · 07-07-2008, 10:24 AM

In elite levels of PL it may be common and in strongman at the lightweight level, 105kg and below. But it's not as prevalant as you'd guess.

In PL seems like certain weight classes it's more common . With 220-242 there's a lot of movement between classes. Most of the folks I train with never cut, they just try to get as big as possible. I'm sitting at about 20% BF and am forbidden to cut until the offseason.

Liam Dougherty Springer · 07-07-2008, 03:05 PM

This thread has become incredible didn't have E-net access over the weekened and am stoked on the info I just received thanks guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell

A 175lb guy doing 24 HSPU may not be able to DL 400+lbs......a 230lb guy Deadlifting 600lbs may not be able to do 24 HSPU. So pick what you want to be good at as mass is a big factor when it comes to strength gains.

Mike I missed your first post somehow. I was thinking something along those lines and I am confused as to what to do in my training. I would like to improve my overall CFing and I had never done any heavy lifting previouse to starting 7 months ago. I am 175 and am not capable of doing Elizabeth or Diane without scaleing down and even then the lifts are slow going while the BW sets are proportionaly easy. I feel like spending a little time with some SS then ME programing and finaly some sort of strength program involving O lifting as a basis (like the mass gain work out) would help me balance my strengths a bit and improve my performance capability overall.

Any thoughts

Steven Low · 07-07-2008, 05:56 PM

SS then MEBB would be good. You can do this concurrently with some oly lifting technique work (keep it fairly light to avoid too much overworking esp. on SS).