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Old 07-14-2008, 05:29 AM   #11
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Barry Anderberg View Post
If I'm strength training three times a week (Starting Strength) and eating a paleo diet, aren't I going to eventually deplete my glycogen? It seems very difficult to get many carbs if all I am eating are meats, eggs, fruits and vegetables. Fructose from fruit cannot replenish muscle glycogen, right?

What I really want to know is what the minimum amount of carbs I need to eat to avoid glycogen depletion is. I don't want my training to suffer or my strength to go down.
Glyocogen depletion shouldn't be an issue on a paleo diet because contrary to popular belief the diet of paleolithic hunter-gatherers (actually gatherer-scavengers) was largely plant based. I believe the confusion regarding the ratio of plant to animal foods ratio comes from Cordains research showing that hunter-gathers derive around 70% of their calories from animal foods. This doesn't mean that they ate a meat based diet though as this figure of 70% results from the fact that animal foods have a far higher calorie density than plant foods so when you look at plant/animal food ratios of hunter-gathers in terms of weight and volume you find a ratio closer to 70/30 with the bulk of the diet being plants.

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Basically, don't worry about insulin too much and it's better to keep it on the low side. As long as you're eating well, getting enough sleep and lifting heavy you will gain muscle mass and strength. Keep it simple.
Well said. Exercise normalizes blood sugar and insulin levels so the only people who really need to worry about their blood sugar and insulin levels are couch potatoes.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:24 AM   #12
Mike ODonnell
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the only people who really need to worry about their blood sugar and insulin levels are couch potatoes.
Not so true....as you can active in spurts....be eating sugar all day....and still develop insulin resistance...increase inflammation and risks of all degenerative diseases across the board. The rate at which it all progresses of course will be individualistic to activity levels and personal insulin sensitivity to begin with. But skinny and athletic people get diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and cancer too. Insulin is probably the ONLY hormone we have true full control over and the one we need to focus on the most. A few spikes a week from pwo feeding is not going to do much.....but chronic spikes and high levels will lead to disease and early retirement from mankind. (Just did a whole post on insulin on the blog...but I highly recommend you read Dr Rosedale's full lecture notes as well)
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:45 AM   #13
Darryl Shaw
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Not so true....as you can active in spurts....be eating sugar all day....and still develop insulin resistance...increase inflammation and risks of all degenerative diseases across the board. The rate at which it all progresses of course will be individualistic to activity levels and personal insulin sensitivity to begin with. But skinny and athletic people get diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and cancer too. Insulin is probably the ONLY hormone we have true full control over and the one we need to focus on the most. A few spikes a week from pwo feeding is not going to do much.....but chronic spikes and high levels will lead to disease and early retirement from mankind. (Just did a whole post on insulin on the blog...but I highly recommend you read Dr Rosedale's full lecture notes as well)
Unless there's some genetic factors involved or they're eating a crappy diet lacking in fruit and vegetables skinny and athletic people only increase their risk of developing diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and cancer if they listen to idiots who tell them they're supposed to slow down as they get older and consequently swap lean body mass for lard because as I said earlier exercise normalizes blood sugar and insulin levels.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:29 AM   #14
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Unless there's some genetic factors involved or they're eating a crappy diet lacking in fruit and vegetables skinny and athletic people only increase their risk of developing diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and cancer if they listen to idiots who tell them they're supposed to slow down as they get older and consequently swap lean body mass for lard because as I said earlier exercise normalizes blood sugar and insulin levels.
Most athletes I know eat like crap....and eat TONS of sugar like gatorade, high pasta meals, Hammer Gels, donuts, candy bars, soda....but they get away with it due to extremely high activity levels. Not to be compared of course to the average corporate man/1 hour spin class/weekend jogger type of person. Of course when talking about health there are other factors such as increased oxidative damage from excess training and calorie consumption. Exercise does normalize blood sugar....when you are exercising. Someone carb loading every night to prepare for training is probably not going to be improving health. Most athletes also as they get older have inflammation issues and will gain weight quickly once they stop their training programs. Loads of variables...but of course if an athlete is eating healthy, then they have a great health base than the others eating crap.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:03 AM   #15
Steve Liberati
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I need to steer clear of the body building websites. Layne Norton thinks insulin is the end all be all of muscle building, and recommends a pretty high intake of carbohydrates. I just don't feel right sacrificing health by eating a ship load of carbs for the sole sake of gaining a fractional amount of extra muscle, thus my questions. Reading Good Calories Bad Calories has really caused me to rethink my approach.. as well as Mark's Daily Apple, even though I find Mark's writing style to be obnoxious as hell.

Hey Steven didn't I see you on Strength Mill in the Mark Rippetoe forum?
Wierd never thought that about Mark's writing style. In fact, I find his style quite down to earth and (captivating). Now Art Devaney is a different story. I find him obnoxious as hell. While I enjoyed reading his blog over the years (great thinker and articulator), I think Art's ego often gets in the way of his writing. Art D. considers himself the prototypical Alpha Male, others just see it as narcissistic. He's probably the same guy who bites the waitress's head off for forgetting his side of broccoli or sends his food back for not being the exact temperature he likes. I could be wrong, but I bet he's a complete dick in real life.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:48 AM   #16
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Wierd never thought that about Mark's writing style. In fact, I find his style quite down to earth and (captivating). Now Art Devaney is a different story. I find him obnoxious as hell. While I enjoyed reading his blog over the years (great thinker and articulator), I think Art's ego often gets in the way of his writing. Art D. considers himself the prototypical Alpha Male, others just see it as narcissistic. He's probably the same guy who bites the waitress's head off for forgetting his side of broccoli or sends his food back for not being the exact temperature he likes. I could be wrong, but I bet he's a complete dick in real life.
His blog is going private anyways.....so I took him off the RSS reader because I was tired of hearing how great he was and how much great stuff is in the private section....not that there is anything wrong with trying to make money on the net (I know that for sure)...but never liked his self centered style even if he is in great shape (but he always has been). However I'd probably still pay $30 for a book if he ever writes it as he is a very smart guy.
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