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Old 08-03-2008, 09:05 PM   #11
Jon Alexander
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Garrett- thanks for the help!

Liam- were can i find a good digestive enzyme? and just so i understand, u eat 10-15 blocks of carbs total on a normal day? and you eat 5-9 of those blocks in your PWO meal? so your last meal or two are basicaly no carbs?
how often do you reduce your fat intake?

thanks for the help!
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:31 PM   #12
Jon Alexander
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Also Liam is that 110-140 grams of fat just your added fat or is that the fat from all your foods combined?

because i just added up my fat intake for today and it was around 155grams, and that is just the added fat not counting what i get from my protein sources.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:37 PM   #13
Liam Dougherty Springer
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I have followed the zone diet with double the fat before. originaly I did 1 gram of fat per lean lb. at 173lb. and 12% BF which was about 21 blocks. By the way I also typicaly follow the CF Main pageish. This was alright but after a while I decided to try and gain some weight/strength so I first uped my fat to 71/2 gm for every block to create a surplus of calories and keep my body from using protein. I have since gained strength and decided to cut. I weighed 180lb. and I began by reducing my total blocks, but I felt hungry. I then began IFing and found I needed way less food. I reduced my blocks over just a couple of weeks to 18 blocks, from 26 blocks at the peak of my eating. During this time I kept my fat at 7g/ block and even aded fat at times.

I began lowering my fat especialy on rest days and found that my hunger didn't increase and I began losing fat fast. I have since found through IF and listening to my body I eat way fewer carbs in general and my blocks are around 16 some times 14. At 165 only a few months later I have gone way back up in fat consumed at all times, and while I have retained my strength I find that at times I need to have heavy eating days even up to like 24 blocks after heavy lifting days.

I wrote all of this to explain that I feel as though without IF and a gradual adaptation I am not sure I would have found myself comfortable during the transitions. I also wanted to explain why my ratios fluctuate quite a bit.

As to the grams of fat I posted that is typicaly total fat. If I am eating very lean meat I dont realy count it but egg yolks fatty cuts or sausage I do. I don't think 150+ is to much depending on your activity and weight obviousely. I am sure there are days I have more than doubled that (not recomending it while trying to lose weight).

Yes to the dinner. Unless I am trying to gain a little muscle after a heavy day I keep carbs out of my last meal maybe some broccoli or green salad. Lots of Olive Oil or Avocado. Also I stop eating a few hours before bed so even if there are some carbs my inslin shouldn't be rageing.

The digestive enzime I use is Digest Gold by Enzymedica they also make some lipase formulas specifically for fat. They are not cheap but I find them to really ease any digestive issues which can occure from big meals small eating windows or cheat meals.

This is what has been working for me sorry if it was way more than you wanted to know.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:43 PM   #14
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Oh yeah I would be sure to get well adjusted to high fat and lower blocks and be sure recovery is good before lowering fat and then test it before maintaining a lower fat for any length of time but at one point I spent about 2 weeks at 16ish blocks and 4.5g/block at full activity and had no problem recovering then I would go back up to be sure I didn't start useing my muscle as a regular source of energy.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:30 AM   #15
Jon Alexander
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Liam- thanks for the info, very helpful.
i too do crossfit! i am about 192-197 lbs and fairly active(try and do some activity everyday) so i think the fat is not a problem. i have noticed in just teh short time since switching that my recovery time is much faster!! i will give it another week or two and then i might try lowering my fat on rest days and i have also been thinking about try IF as i think with my messed up work scheduale it might work out pretty well!!
is there an online place were i can find those enzymes?
thanks again for all the info and help!!
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:29 AM   #16
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Alexander View Post
is there an online place were i can find those enzymes?
thanks again for all the info and help!!
I am sure there is just Google Enzymedica I get mine from Whole Foods but now that you metion it I will look on line. The guy who owns the company wrote a book "all you need to know about enzymes" Kinda alot of info but I think it was helpfull. The jist is enzyme suplaments free up your bodies ability to focus the enzyme production on the enzymes that can not be suplamented the bennifits include improved cell reproduction (anti-ageing), improved immune function, nuroendocrine efficiancy, and improved digestion/metabolism. I am kinda surprised there is not more talk of enzymes here. I am gonna study more into it and perhaps start a thread. Honestly I don't have a broad enough understanding to be sure that all the supposed bennifits are real but it deffinatly helps digestion.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:52 AM   #17
Jon Alexander
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Liam, what does your IF schedual look like? how has it affected your crossfit if at all?
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:56 PM   #18
Liam Dougherty Springer
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I am pretty random about IF. I try and get one 20+ a week and and one full day of eating. I like to make a rest day the beginning of a long fast because I can eat big in the morning and stop early in the after noon. I would say my average day is 16 hours.

Example: M eat 11-8:30/ T eat 12:30-7:30/ W eat 12-9/ Th(rest) eat 8-3/ F eat 12-10/ Sat(WO in morn on empt stmche) eat-12-8/ Sun (WO OES) eat 11-7.... ....and repeat

If I had my way I would switch up my work outs more often but since I WO after work I typically eat light like 4-6 blocks before my WO at 5 and give myself 2-3 hours to digest before my workout. I break my fast with an apple and some nuts most often then about 20 minutes later 1 or 2 eggs(omega 3) then I have a light lunch high fat low carb about 3 or 4 blocks of protein I love a can of sardines for this.

As far as my cross fit performance I have realized that training OES or Under nourished has effected my performance negatively initially and then led to an increased feeling of endurance and recovery. Also when I am trying to excel in a bench mark WO or am feeling competitive I will rest before the work out eat two 3 block zone perfect meals 2xfat about 2 hours apart with fruit as the carbs usually berries in the second with a two hour fast before my work out the protein is typically eggs in the first and whey in the second (I know it is not paleo). I usually find myself light and in the zone with good nourishment and glycogen ready. If I had a long and active fast and didn't get enough carbs after a high rep WO the day before I may not have enough glycogen.

I think I just took way too long to say that overal my ability to efficiently utilize stored energy during a work out, and metabolize dietary nutrition for improved recovery has improved my ability to perform especially in the metcon arena. In order to maximize these benefits I sometimes train in a state which compromises my ability to perform at the time. Hard to have my cake and eat it too.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #19
Jon Alexander
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Thanks for all of your advice Liam!

how many cals should I eat per day? i have been tracking it on fit day for the last couple of days, i would post it here but i dont know how?
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:45 PM   #20
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Alexander View Post
Thanks for all of your advice Liam!

how many cals should I eat per day? i have been tracking it on fit day for the last couple of days, i would post it here but i dont know how?
I am not technically quallifide to say how many calories however when trying to lose I some times drop well bellow 2000 on rest days and shorten my eating windows. And when gaining go above 3000 no problem mostly adding fat and protein and switching my carbs to more statchy types of foods.

There are some people here that are well qualified for this.... and there are a couple threads going... I have rescently scene some good stuff along the lines of calorie alotment... maybe you should start a thread specificaly along these lines or this could turn into one if some others jump in.
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