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Old 11-05-2008, 11:53 AM   #11
joe waguespack
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I hate to see this. I came to the PM boards to get away from the CF witch hunt forums. It doesn't matter the persons goal, it's their goal. Wether we agree with it or not, if we have the knowledge and experience to help someone take the right steps in the right direction, then I think we need to do so.

Trygve, you really need to read up on The Zone, Paleo, and IF. Check out Mike O'Donnell's blog, there is a ton of great info on losing fat . building muscle and also making good healthy dietary choices. We all want to look good, some of us want to be healthy as well , and then there are some that want to look good at any cost. Remember , you can have the appearance of being fit without actually being fit ( drugs will definitely play a part in that) , but it is impossible to actually be fit and not look it. There is no magic diet or workout that will get you muscular and ripped. It's about finding the right mix of nutritional and training strategies that work well for you and get you to your goals the healthiest, safest and fastest. Even if you go over to the Bodybuilding forums these days you will see many people advocating fruits and veggies, lean proteins and healthy fats along with a good solid routine based around big compound movements. This is nothing new and people are still doing it because it works. As far as cycling nutrients , I would say the easiest way to put it would be : eat more when you do more, eat less when you do less. On the days you train heavy up the calories a bit and maybe try to keep any non fruit/veggie carb sources to your post WO meal. I don't really suggest any non fruit/veggie carb sources ( maybe oatmeal) but if you do eat them do it post WO. I have found no need to really cycle carbs/fats/proteins, it never did anything for me. I like to eat a good balanced diet every day, with usually one "anything goes" day a week.

Just another little bit of advice, like Gant said" Form follows function". I was never really able to get super lean and get to that point where I looked good until I stopped worrying so much about how I looked and started focusing more on improving in my workouts and enjoying what I was doing. Find a good diet of natural whole foods and focus on getting stronger and more powerful , and I promise you the physical changes will happen.
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:34 PM   #12
Gant Grimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe waguespack View Post
I hate to see this. I came to the PM boards to get away from the CF witch hunt forums. It doesn't matter the persons goal, it's their goal. Wether we agree with it or not, if we have the knowledge and experience to help someone take the right steps in the right direction, then I think we need to do so.
This is not a witch hunt. The PMJ's tagline is "Journal of Health and Athletic Excellence." I acknowledge other people's goals, but if they're inconsistent with the forum on which they're posted, I won't spend a lot of time giving advice. Simply attaining 5-6% BF is not inherently healthy or athletic. In most cases, it's not healthy at all (borderline eating disorder). I won't enable a young person whom I believe is embarking on an unhealthy path, whether I have the knowledge or not.

That said, a little Paleo grazing and bodyweight exercises will take him far.
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Last edited by Gant Grimes : 11-05-2008 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:38 PM   #13
Emily Mattes
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I apologize, Joe, and I'm sorry Trygve, I was a bit rude in that last post. I'm wrestling with this because part of me recognizes that this guy's goals are his goals, and the other part really hates eating disordered behavior. And an all-encompassing desire to get down to a certain body-fat percentage can be a recipe for eating-disordered behavior.
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:55 PM   #14
joe waguespack
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Gant and Emily ( no need to apologize), My point was not to help him make unhealthy choices, it was to give him solid advice based on our knowledge and experiences to help him achieve his goals in a healthy manner. I reached 5- 6% bf and was extremely healthy, fit and strong. But I did it by eating healthy and training hard. It can be done in a healthy manner and if we can help someone get there intelligently and without impacting their health in a negative way instead of sending them to seek out advice from those that will suggest hours of cardio, 6 protein shakes a day, and grueling supersets of curls and skull crushers, then wouldn't it make sense to do so.
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:08 PM   #15
Gant Grimes
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Originally Posted by joe waguespack View Post
if we can help someone get there intelligently and without impacting their health in a negative way instead of sending them to seek out advice from those that will suggest hours of cardio, 6 protein shakes a day, and grueling supersets of curls and skull crushers, then wouldn't it make sense to do so.
Ahh, shall I be the lesser of two evils? You've put me in a quandary, my friend. If the alternative is cardio (in this case, very unhealthy), then yes, I shall.

Trygve, you've received some solid advice. Go to Mike's blog. Learn about macronutrients. Learn about hormones. That's more important than fat cycling and meal-timing at this point. Get your ass up on some monkey bars, mix in a little parkour, and realize that, at this age, a little Guiness or Harp is worth 0.5% bodyfat.*




In my case, it's worth about 3%.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:56 PM   #16
Trygve Lunde
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hehe thank you very much all think i will dive into the zone. Im eating sort of paleo and doing if now so all that want be a problem. Its just that im doing almost no carb. And one carb up day, but yeah im gonna change that now. and make myself some good dinners in the near future. Only 400g steak a day with no veggies or nothing is kind of boring, and the same is 400g salmon with nothing else.

And as i said before, i want a healthy way to reach these goals and ofc i want to look muscular. But my goal is just to get super ripped once and for all. ive tried so many things but never gotten the results i wanted. I have all the muscles i need so i dont need to get any bigger.
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:09 PM   #17
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Eat protein, get healthy fats and veggies, lift heavy full body 3x a week, stop excesive cardio, cycle carbs as needed 1-2x a week. That will get most anyone ripped. (sipping on beer.....)
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:57 PM   #18
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great, another thing. any good sites for palo/zone recepies? so my meals will get more excited
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:25 PM   #19
Craig Loizides
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There are some paleo recipes here although not necessarily zone proportions:
http://www.paleofood.com/
There are also lots of recipes in The Zone and The Paleo Diet.

I thought you said you were a professional soccer player. Aren't you at least a little interested in performance?

Gant,
I agree that 5-6% BF (or 6-8% like originally posted) isn't inherently healthy or athletic, but it isn't inherently unhealthy or unathletic either. Actually, most elite athletes are probably in this range.
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #20
Trygve Lunde
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Originally Posted by Craig Loizides View Post
There are some paleo recipes here although not necessarily zone proportions:
http://www.paleofood.com/
There are also lots of recipes in The Zone and The Paleo Diet.

I thought you said you were a professional soccer player. Aren't you at least a little interested in performance?

Gant,
I agree that 5-6% BF (or 6-8% like originally posted) isn't inherently healthy or athletic, but it isn't inherently unhealthy or unathletic either. Actually, most elite athletes are probably in this range.
Thanx, that is true. the very best players are very ripped. yeah of course my performance matters, but now the season is over and i want to get ripped once and for all
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