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Old 10-28-2008, 08:33 AM   #21
Patrick Yeung
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Im not gonna try and weight in on this as I do not eat post workout, or when I do, its just my first meal of the day of whatever that may be.

But, I made your protein bars/cookies more the way I was makin em, and they are freakin good. I didnt really measure, but I was usin cashew butter instead, and just left over protein powder.

I used to make a homemade Gu out of dates/figs and various other ingredients. Ill work on playing around with a recipie for PWO. My past training always had me eating alot of fruit after a workout with some cottage cheese or cheese for a little fat and protein, but not sure how id feel on a high fat/high protein pwo snack.

Oh, and I think thats funny that you eat alot of rest days, the days youre not burnin as much as your workout days. I find myself doing that too, I wonder why that is. I wonder if its because our bodies are craving calories, and our mind drives us to eat less and fast on workout days to have better workouts?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:01 AM   #22
Sam Brothers
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I'm still not sure/convinced why you need to eat so much protein. From all I've ever understood about nutrition your body isn't can't use that much. It's working your kidneys unnecessarily. I've noticed I grow at a steady rate with under 75g protein/day (150lbs). I'm open to understanding if I'm wrong so any info contrary please link!
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:24 AM   #23
Daniel Olmstead
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Well, if I didn't have the protein, it'd just be fat, and I don't think I could live off of just fat. Plus, at the low rate of carbohydrate ingestion I'm at, I'm not giving my body enough carbohydrates to refill liver and muscle glycogen via glucose, so it has to convert the protein via gluconeogenesis. As for the amount - when I was eating in more zone-like proportions, I found I simply did not gain weight without ~200g/day protein. It wouldn't happen. Now, I don't know if that will be different under my current macronutrient profile, we shall see.

Although I'm not really planning on keeping my current macronutrient profile. I'm thinking of adding an additional 100g of carbohydrates PWO to speed muscle recovery, to see what that's like. I wouldn't have the extra carbs on rest days.

I've recently tried Kefir and really like it, so I'm planning on learning how to brew my own so I can have a big kefir/fruit smoothie after workouts. Toying with the notion of QOKAD.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:18 AM   #24
Patrick Yeung
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Yeah, yogurt would be good for a pwo id imagine. I used to make smoothies with it. Freeze cubes of yogurt, then throw em in a blender with frozen bannana and other fruits, then add milk to your consistency. You get it smooth and thick like a milk shake. I wonder if coconut milk would work, itd be way creamier and much higher in fat.

I used to think like you as well Sam. I have a question for ya though.

What are your goals, and are you trying to put on weight or maintain?

I was 135, but doing triathlons not too long ago, and was eating around 75-85g of protein a day and was doin fine. But now im starting to lift, and it wouldnt cut it at all. Im eating id say around 100-150g a day, and im at 155lbs now.

I can send you plenty of links that show you dont need more than .5g/lb, and other showing .7g, 1g or even more. It really depends on your profile and goals. But im working right now...
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:24 AM   #25
Daniel Olmstead
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Backsliding, for the first time in two months.

What went in (avg. daily):
Calories: 2,218
Fat: 126g (50%)
Carbs: 82g + 27g fiber (18%)
Protein: 170g (31%)

Results:
Weight: 175 (+1 lbs, 13lbs total)
Waist: 32.25 (+0.125", 1.75" total)
Bodyfat: 12% (+0.5%, 3% total)
Percentage to goal: 88%

My intake profile is essentially the same as it's been for the last few weeks, so I don't think that's it. I think it's likely the exercise: we did a very brutal burpee/pullup workout last Wednesday that basically thrashed me for the entire week - nearly every workout until Sunday felt like crap. In retrospect, I probably should have taken an extra rest day before jumping back in - instead I felt like I was scrambling to catch up all week.

This has been a difficult week for me, disciplinarily speaking, in a couple different ways. Fall has finally, definitively hit the Bay Area, and it is having a psychological effect. The lack of sun and colder weather is making it harder to generate enthusiasm for working out, and making diversions like video games more tempting. I'm also feeling hungrier, and burned-out on tracking in Fitday.

So part of me wants to just quit tracking for a while, freestyle the diet (adding more carbs in PWO), and start heavy 5x5 training again for strength and LBM gains. You know what it feels like? Hibernation. But another part of me is chafing at being so close to an unmet goal, so wants to keep working at this a little longer. I'm not really sure what to do at this point.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:56 PM   #26
Thomas Bailly
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great thread , relevant observations,thanks.
I've been noting that this winter ( it has been between 10 deg F and 28F here for the last 3 weeks) my diet has gone to crap and I've been cold, I usually run cold but dropped to about 9% BF this summer/fall, however just one day of cleaning up the diet ( low carb, only Paleo, more protein and moderate fat) kept me a lot warmer.....unfortunately super long hours at work (outside) have dropped exercise from 5-6 days a week to 1!!!! so maybe that is more relevant in terms of muscle generated heat...
Anyway just wanted to add some not quite finished observations relating to some of your post, thanks again.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:52 AM   #27
Daniel Olmstead
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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAALLLLLLLL!!
Wow, this was unexpected.

What went in (average daily):
Don't know. Stopped tracking.

What came out:

Weight: 173 (-2 lbs, 15lbs total)
Waist: 32 (-0.25", 2" total)
Bodyfat: 11% (-1%, 4% total)
Percentage to goal: 100%

Time it took: 10 weeks

Burnt out on Fitday and feeling too OCD about what I ate and how it affected me, I decided to take some time off from tracking, until I felt like I'd enjoy it again. In the meantime, I continued to eat as I have been doing. I still habitually weigh in every Wednesday, though, (gotta keep the graph consistent!), and was really surprised with what I saw this morning - I haven't been feeling particularly thin or anything lately - indeed, just last night I had a bad dream that I was weak and pudgy again.

Nevertheless, there it is. I haven't been this thin since high school, and I've never been this fit before, period. I need new pants. I want to get back to focusing on strength gains, but for the time being I think I'm just going to enjoy where I am and how I'm doing for a while.

As I get more and more enamored of climbing, I get less interested in the big muscles. Climbing is far more about strength-to-weight ratio than it is about size, as the goal is more total muscle recruitment than it is mass - obviously, the less you weigh as compared to your strength, the easier time you'll have getting up the wall. So my goals are shifting from size to simple strength and efficiency. Jim (fellow CFEB athlete) is far stronger than I am, but not appreciably bigger. And he can climb 5.13-something. That, I think, is something to strive towards. It will mean forever being scrawny, but if it means climbing 5.12, then I'm OK with that.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:01 PM   #28
Scott Hanson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Olmstead View Post
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAALLLLLLLL!!
Wow, this was unexpected.
As I get more and more enamored of climbing, I get less interested in the big muscles. Climbing is far more about strength-to-weight ratio than it is about size, as the goal is more total muscle recruitment than it is mass - obviously, the less you weigh as compared to your strength, the easier time you'll have getting up the wall. So my goals are shifting from size to simple strength and efficiency. Jim (fellow CFEB athlete) is far stronger than I am, but not appreciably bigger. And he can climb 5.13-something. That, I think, is something to strive towards. It will mean forever being scrawny, but if it means climbing 5.12, then I'm OK with that.
Congratulations Daniel! Thanks for posting your progress.

Many sports benefit from a high strength to weight ratio, so I certainly wouldn't stress about less bulk. I've seen plenty of climbers who were lean, ripped, and strong. Maybe focus on the gymnastics instead of the weight-training?
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:24 AM   #29
Gittit Shwartz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Yeung View Post
...
Oh, and I think thats funny that you eat alot of rest days, the days youre not burnin as much as your workout days. I find myself doing that too, I wonder why that is. I wonder if its because our bodies are craving calories, and our mind drives us to eat less and fast on workout days to have better workouts?
Congrats!
Thought i'd give my ideas on appetite on rest days:

1. If you work out late in the day, your muscles are still compensating and rebuilding themselves the next morning, so it makes sense you would be hungrier.

2. Exercise suppresses appetite for a short time at least, and you tend to forget or ignore hunger when you're busy and absorbed. So if you're not working out and not particularly engrossed in the day's work, you'll tend to eat more.

I found if I follow my appetite i tend to undereat on a day when I train late and overeat the next day. Depending on your goals it might not be such a bad thing. I'm not convinced a diet has to be painful to work
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:56 PM   #30
Patrick Yeung
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I hear ya. When I work out, I dont even really want to eat. I remember reading that, those who train regularly do not experience as drastic a drop in blood sugar as those who do not after a workout.

Might explain why im never hungry, but when I finally convince the girl to go for a quick run or jog, she eats everything..


Congrats Daniel.

I hope you can keep up the shape and just build on lean mass. Either way, im sure youre relieved.

Shows sometimes we need to just relax and chill. You knew you were doin all the right things, but not havin to be so anal about it may have helped ya. What sucks is, now you cant go back to see what may have changed....
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