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Old 11-20-2008, 06:58 PM   #11
Emily Mattes
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One of my coaches prescribed a clean deadlift followed by a shrug--NOT a pull, just get to the top, then try to shrug it up as best you can. But sometimes I think he's a sadist (then again, I feel like that's required for coaching).
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:23 AM   #12
Chris H Laing
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Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
Chris,
But I prefer a lower hip position for the deadlifts as compared to cleans, clean pulls, and clean stance RDL's, etc.
Would you say that the higher hip position you take in cleans allows you to whip the bar up more? Because that's what I feel right now, and when I do cleans I have about the same position as my deadlift (high hips in both) but was under the impression I was doing it wrong...
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:07 PM   #13
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris H Laing View Post
Would you say that the higher hip position you take in cleans allows you to whip the bar up more? Because that's what I feel right now, and when I do cleans I have about the same position as my deadlift (high hips in both) but was under the impression I was doing it wrong...
Yes. That position allows me to get, IMO, more body over the bar to have more leverage and power to apply to the bar during the second pull - but it builds from the first pull.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I wish we had a video or something to look at. If that makes any sense?

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:36 PM   #14
Brian DeGennaro
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Everyone's start position is going to be different, all because of anthropomorphy. For me to stay over the bar I need to be a few inches lower than my "deadlift" set position, but definitely higher than say Greg's or Aimee's set position.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:12 AM   #15
Chris H Laing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
Yes. That position allows me to get, IMO, more body over the bar to have more leverage and power to apply to the bar during the second pull - but it builds from the first pull.
Thats exactly the same feeling I have. Do you ever experience any bruised thighs from bouncing the bar off them at the start of the second pull?

It happens to me a lot when I position my shoulders in front of the bar and I think causes the bar to be slightly farther in front of my body than its supposed to be, which makes me have to jump forward slightly to catch it, which results in landing on my toes.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:38 AM   #16
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Thats exactly the same feeling I have. Do you ever experience any bruised thighs from bouncing the bar off them at the start of the second pull?

It happens to me a lot when I position my shoulders in front of the bar and I think causes the bar to be slightly farther in front of my body than its supposed to be, which makes me have to jump forward slightly to catch it, which results in landing on my toes.
I've got a big ole bruise right at the top of my right quad right now from a clean session two days ago. But I like to think of where my bruise is at - because of my damn long arms (note they are great for deadlifting and woodchopping )- the very near the top of my second of pull. I like to bring the hips into the bar just prior to shrugging violently. Because of my long appendanges, I also try to lean back a bit or get a "head whip." This 'head whip" is not recommended. It's just something I think works for me at this stage, but I'm a complete novice in this stuff and have only been truly squat cleaning for the past 4 weeks.

The thigh bump we're describing can cause the bar to drift forward. And it's noted in my recent video comments from Allen in as much as I'm jumping forward to catch the bar. It's likely what caused the bruise on my right now - but I think I did it on the lighter sets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79q9ub_rRm4

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:25 PM   #17
Greg Everett
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Chris -

What you described (i.e. more leverage) will only feel better until the weight gets heavier. Keep this in mind - if you have a longer lever (your back), guess what - the muscles that move that lever (i.e. extend the hip) have to work harder to move the same weight. You're creating a greater mechanical disadvantage by leaning farther over. This means more difficulty accelerating, more fatigue, and then ultimately less speed. It also means you're relying more on hip extension and less on leg extension, which means you're limiting the potential for vertical bar acceleration, not increasing it.

And yes, that higher hipped start will encourage the bar to bang against the thighs, and that is NOT, in ANY WAY, productive.

Many people will feel like this is a more powerful clean - but it's because they're doing the alternative (i.e. correct way) poorly.
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:08 PM   #18
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So, cleaning from a deadlift position is obviously detrimental to oly training, but what about deadlifting from a clean position, as opposed to deadlifting from a conventional starting position?

I read in one of the articles on this site, or maybe one of the workout quote things, that weightlifters should only deadlift from a clean position because, obviously, it develops a stronger first pull.

But shouldn't weightlifters work on the conventional deadlift at least a little bit, to engage the hamstrings more? because oly squating, whether overhead, front, or HB back, involves mostly the quads and glutes, right?

I guess if you were going to the olympics, or at least a high level competition, you would do as much to get the lifts right, and wouldn't worry about hamstring strength as much, but if your not really into competing, but are still interested in getting your oly lifts as strong as possible, would it be more beneficial to work dl's from the clean position only, or from both the clean and conventional positions?

Also...is there a way to tell if your doing the correct technique poorly, because i think that i might be...
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:13 PM   #19
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Chris -

The concern for hamstring strength is largely unfounded - the more upright pulling posture does use more quad than if the hips were higher, but there is still a tremendous demand on the hamstrings.

There is no reason a more upright pull would negatively effect the deadlift - it would just start changing your deadlift style to a more upright position because you'd be stronger that way instead of the higher-hipped way. In either case, you're lifting the bar from the bottom to the top.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:21 PM   #20
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Well im sold! Next time i deadlift ill be working on getting my hips lower. Thanks for the insight.
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