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Old 12-30-2008, 10:28 AM   #1
Justin Keane
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Default Fat Zone

Hola all.
Looking to lean out by about 10 pounds while ramping up performance and after looking through past wod journals it seems like I was hitting my best #s while maintaining that lower bodyweight while going pretty low-carb: probably only 4-5 blocks a day of veggies and fruit.

So I am back on that routine and trying to zone it (as portion size can occasionally be a downfall of mine) per Robb W's 'sub in 3 fat blocks for every removed carb block.' For me, that works out to 17 blks protein, let's say 3 blks carbs, and 59 blks fat.

Problem is occurring at day's end every now and again when I reach for the almond butter and just like that am 20-30 blocks over my prescription. I'm not stressing out about that too much b/c it's not an every day thing and it almost always occurs the evening after a poor night's sleep so I feel like I have a handle on it, but I am curious:

What exactly is happening hormonally when I am taking in that amount of fat at 9 or 10 PM, 3 or 4 hours after my last meal? Is it in and of itself going to significantly derail the leaning out process? One reads so much about how any late-night calories are automatically stored as fat no if ands or buts and I wonder how truthful that is.

Any thoughts would be welcome.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:33 PM   #2
Steven Low
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Originally Posted by Justin Keane View Post
What exactly is happening hormonally when I am taking in that amount of fat at 9 or 10 PM, 3 or 4 hours after my last meal?
You're hungry?

The only thing I can think of is that I know that some fats are required as steroid precursors. One of the studies I mentioned in neuroendocrine response showed that exercise the previous day followed by sleep deprivation shows an increased spike in growth hormone (and probably another anabolic response) during the next night's sleep. So your body may be preparing for that.

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Is it in and of itself going to significantly derail the leaning out process?
Not necessarily. The best way to figure out if you're leaning out is the mirror. It never lies.

That or like calipers, hydrostatic weighing, etc. Scale doesn't work too well since you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time (although not that efficiently).

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One reads so much about how any late-night calories are automatically stored as fat no if ands or buts and I wonder how truthful that is.

Any thoughts would be welcome.
That's one of those dumb myths.

Let's say your body requires 3000 cals to maintain weight and you're eating 2600 during the day and then you have a 400 cal snack before bedtime. You're body's not going to store that as fat but use it to maintain it's own weight.
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:13 AM   #3
Justin Keane
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Thanks Steven...really interesting stuff about the pre-GH theory.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:47 PM   #4
Derek Weaver
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Like Steven said, the late night eating this is a myth in terms of automatic storage in fat cells.

Wondering what kind of work you're doing though on 3 blocks of carbs? That's not just ketogenic, but just under Anabolic Diet levels of carbohydrate.

Just going low carb won't necessarily improve your body comp if you're still eating too much. Don't be afraid to manage insulin and carb intake by jamming them in PWO... another Robb suggestion that worked wonders for me in the past before I decided to get strong, and as such a little chubby. Gotta figure that back out.

Just throwing that out there. Kind of surprised there hasn't been more of a conversation in this one.... must be the "Zone" sub forum.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:20 PM   #5
Justin Keane
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Wondering what kind of work you're doing though on 3 blocks of carbs? That's not just ketogenic, but just under Anabolic Diet levels of carbohydrate.
3's probably a little bit low...maybe more like 5. I'll typically eat a piece of fruit and a little veggie w/my first meal of the day (around noonish) and then have a package of broccoli or spinach w/dinner. Snacking on fats btw those two meals and after dinner.

Performance (probably averaging 3 metcons and 2 strength wods/wk) hasn't seemed to suffer since I've gone back on the lower-carb. But I do find that I really have to work to get the 5-6 carb blocks in, so that could also be where the late night hunger is coming in on the days where I'm only getting 3 or so.
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Old 12-31-2008, 04:10 PM   #6
Derek Weaver
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Could be. Bananas and tubers like yams or sweet potatoes were great to help restore glycogen for me.

I started hitting a lot of CF Metcon PR's with the more targeted carb approach and experienced better body comp. Looking to get back on track once I can shake this little bout of bronchitis I've developed.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:31 AM   #7
Emily Mattes
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Whenever I've tried following the Zone, or even fat-modified Zone it always ends with late-night nut butter binges. I've found better results both performance and body-composition wise by simply going Paleo with minimal fruit and keep track of calories and grams of protein to make sure I'm getting enough of each. In the end I'm usually getting 60g of carbs a day at most, probably like 5-13% of my diet from carbs.

On the Zone, I'm supposed to be eating 1300, 1400 calories at 180lbs . . . Not enough to support my sanity. Right now, I'm eating about 2000 and still losing at least 2lbs/week. I would try tracking your Zone calories to see how much you're actually eating and see if you might be better off eating more food, period.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:00 AM   #8
Justin Keane
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thanks Emily--consciously upping and tracking the kcals on fitday for a few days was a pretty useful exercise. I also enjoyed eating a little more protein.

Followup question: I feel like I've got a workable plan by which to hit the Zone now and I wonder what people think is more effective for leaning out: the strict 17 block zone across the board, or Robb W's 17 pro, 8-9 carbs (majority PWO) and 41 or so fats (3 blocks per missing carb block)?
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:28 PM   #9
Brian Wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Keane View Post
thanks Emily--consciously upping and tracking the kcals on fitday for a few days was a pretty useful exercise. I also enjoyed eating a little more protein.

Followup question: I feel like I've got a workable plan by which to hit the Zone now and I wonder what people think is more effective for leaning out: the strict 17 block zone across the board, or Robb W's 17 pro, 8-9 carbs (majority PWO) and 41 or so fats (3 blocks per missing carb block)?
Justin - I'm not sure yet, but I'm working on it too. Check out my blog, I'm doing 17P/9C/41F per day (at least trying). I leaned out real fast the first 12 days on the zone, but had some cheat nights the last two days and went back up a little.
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:42 PM   #10
Derek Weaver
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I think a pitfall of the Zone is too many carbs too often. Not necessarily too many carbs overall. Try Robb's approach of putting half your carb blocks in the PWO window. If your insulin sensitivity is so damaged that you can't handle them, that's one story, but they don't need to be discounted completely. Keeping carbs around your workout time helps to manage things a little better and makes other meals easier to prepare.

For the record, I lean out quickest going ketogenic, but performance sucks in ketosis, or near it and I can still lean out well keeping carbs targeted around workouts.
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