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Old 02-16-2009, 09:45 AM   #21
Brian Lawyer
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Default Stretch Reflex

RE: Stretch Reflex:
What should I feel for? Coaching cues? Reading materials? etc. I really want to start working deeper ROM but I don't want to "collapse" at the bottom and I want to learn how to utilize my "stretch reflex" better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
...You definitely shouldn't be losing tension at the bottom of the squat. You should hit the bottom more or less softly and bounce right back up. Squatting in dive bomber mode is just going to get you hurt.
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Originally Posted by glennpendlay View Post
...I also think that your hip flexor pain might go away a bit if you learn to utilize the stretch reflex a little more in the bottom...
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:30 AM   #22
Brian Lawyer
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
... Also, your spotter should be commended for his impeccable squat shoe style, squatting in loafers is sooo diesel
Dave me and my workout friend at work, who was with filming during the above videos, were just reading over the thread and my friend pointed out that little nugget above. We were both ROLFLMAO. We recommended to Tony he ought to just lift in his loafers as they would provide better support than his Air Nike shoes, or whatever he had. He was a little paranoid that we would catch him on camera but I assured him no one would notice....
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:18 PM   #23
Derek Maffett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
RE: Stretch Reflex:
What should I feel for? Coaching cues? Reading materials? etc. I really want to start working deeper ROM but I don't want to "collapse" at the bottom and I want to learn how to utilize my "stretch reflex" better.
Main thing you're probably going to be worried about here is back arch. Losing it is pretty much equal to "collapse."

Think of it as a compression of power, almost pushing yourself into the floor and gathering up all the energy that you possibly can for a monumental and totally righteous standing action. Let your desire for great justice burn in your heart and the moment the deceitful barbell thinks it has won by pushing your thighs into your calves and burying you alive amongst the shrieks and agony of failure, show him the mighty strength of your spine which never fell to the assault. Organize every muscle in your body to follow the example of your spine and STAND! Defeat the weight! Do not allow your rear to sink back and towards the floor. Do not allow the charismatic leader of your muscular brigade to fall, letting the standard of your army, your own inspiring visage, to bow down and taste the cold, unforgiving dirt. Gather all your power and give hope to the poor people of this world. Chest held up high, you must turn the tables on your enemy and march forward (up in this case) no matter what.

Go forth! Conquer! Win.

So, was that inspiring or what? You're totally psyched now and have the right imagery to boot! So what are you waiting for? Go forth and show your awesomely magnificent devotion to Justice!
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:40 PM   #24
Brian Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
Main thing you're probably going to be worried about here is back arch. Losing it is pretty much equal to "collapse."
Losing my back arch is not so much a concern with me. Check out that activating TA thread I started. I have been more concerned lately with hyper-extension causing unnecessary soreness or tightness in my low back.

This quote below is great! I'll have to print and review before my next set of squats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
Think of it as a compression of power, almost pushing yourself into the floor and gathering up all the energy that you possibly can for a monumental and totally righteous standing action. Let your desire for great justice burn in your heart and the moment the deceitful barbell thinks it has won by pushing your thighs into your calves and burying you alive amongst the shrieks and agony of failure, show him the mighty strength of your spine which never fell to the assault. Organize every muscle in your body to follow the example of your spine and STAND! Defeat the weight! Do not allow your rear to sink back and towards the floor. Do not allow the charismatic leader of your muscular brigade to fall, letting the standard of your army, your own inspiring visage, to bow down and taste the cold, unforgiving dirt. Gather all your power and give hope to the poor people of this world. Chest held up high, you must turn the tables on your enemy and march forward (up in this case) no matter what.

Go forth! Conquer! Win.

So, was that inspiring or what? You're totally psyched now and have the right imagery to boot! So what are you waiting for? Go forth and show your awesomely magnificent devotion to Justice!
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:37 PM   #25
Brian Lawyer
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I just found a thread on rippatoe's Q&A on strengthmills regarding Hip flexor soreness. His response to the gentleman asking the question was that it is a form and technique problem for which the answer is on page 45 of his book, Starting Strength.

I am not sure if I buy into that answer. I have reviewed that page in his book several times which basically says there are two causes to hip flexor pain, (1) knees traveling too far forward (remember we are talking LBBS here not HBBS for which knees forward is acceptable) or (2) collapsing at the bottom.

From the tone of Rip's response, he seemed pretty confident those are the only two reasons anyone's hip flexors would ever be sore and if your hip flexors are sore you are a moron for doing squats wrong.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
I can tell you all the soreness I had left when I quit stopping short of full depth and learned to use the stretch reflex correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
,,,Do any of you all see anything in there that would clue you in on why my hip flexors are constantly sore....I think they have been better over the last couple weeks. but they still get sore quite a bit even when my quads and everything else is recovered.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:28 PM   #26
Ben Fury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post

Regarding Hip Flexors: Do any of you all see anything in there that would clue you in on why my hip flexors are constantly sore....I think they have been better over the last couple weeks. but they still get sore quite a bit even when my quads and everything else is recovered.
Are you stretching them?

If so, how? THAT'S the video I need to see. Not your squat.

If you're not stretching them, why not?
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:27 PM   #27
Brian Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Fury View Post
Are you stretching them?

If so, how? THAT'S the video I need to see. Not your squat.

If you're not stretching them, why not?
Ben, This problem also goes back to another thread in flexibility you and I have been discussing regarding AIS. Below is the answer to your above question. Tell me which of the below you would like to see video of and I will take one for you.

Warmup: Up until a couple weeks ago, I generally do an elaborate, approx 10 minute, warmup which incorporates various styles of lunges (i.e. lunges with twist, backward lunges, side lunges), various glute bridges (i.e. glute bridge single leg, or marching) some rotational work (lying supine with knee or leg rotating the lower half of torso from side to side), and so forth. I quit this a couple weeks ago because the STarting strength Routine I had been doing requires several Squat warmup sets starting from just the bar at 45lbs and working up to my work sets. As a result, I cut out my elaborate warmup routine and traded it for 5 minutes on the C2 rower.

During workout:
Between sets of squats I usually do this one stretch where you are on one knee in a lunge position and lean torso forward to stretch hip flexor while keeping torso nice and tall. I never stretch and hold during a workout, but I do reps with about a 1- 2 second hold of about 5 reps on each leg.

After workout: Not necessarily immediately after a workout but on recovery days I do the static stretch and hold similar to the during workout stretch above except I'll put my foot on a bench so it hits my quads and hip flexors.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
Tell me which of the below you would like to see video of and I will take one for you.

During workout:
Between sets of squats I usually do this one stretch where you are on one knee in a lunge position and lean torso forward to stretch hip flexor while keeping torso nice and tall. I never stretch and hold during a workout, but I do reps with about a 1- 2 second hold of about 5 reps on each leg.

After workout: Not necessarily immediately after a workout but on recovery days I do the static stretch and hold similar to the during workout stretch above except I'll put my foot on a bench so it hits my quads and hip flexors.
Yeah, let's see those two, please!
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:04 PM   #29
George Mounce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
Ben, This problem also goes back to another thread in flexibility you and I have been discussing regarding AIS. Below is the answer to your above question. Tell me which of the below you would like to see video of and I will take one for you.

Warmup: Up until a couple weeks ago, I generally do an elaborate, approx 10 minute, warmup which incorporates various styles of lunges (i.e. lunges with twist, backward lunges, side lunges), various glute bridges (i.e. glute bridge single leg, or marching) some rotational work (lying supine with knee or leg rotating the lower half of torso from side to side), and so forth. I quit this a couple weeks ago because the STarting strength Routine I had been doing requires several Squat warmup sets starting from just the bar at 45lbs and working up to my work sets. As a result, I cut out my elaborate warmup routine and traded it for 5 minutes on the C2 rower.

During workout:
Between sets of squats I usually do this one stretch where you are on one knee in a lunge position and lean torso forward to stretch hip flexor while keeping torso nice and tall. I never stretch and hold during a workout, but I do reps with about a 1- 2 second hold of about 5 reps on each leg.

After workout: Not necessarily immediately after a workout but on recovery days I do the static stretch and hold similar to the during workout stretch above except I'll put my foot on a bench so it hits my quads and hip flexors.
I like the rower (I do 2-3 minutes) but I also do a dynamic range of motion warm-up following that. You might want to add that to your warm-up.

Here is a vid: http://www.performancemenu.com/exerc.../dromsDemo.mov
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:17 AM   #30
Brian Lawyer
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Only reason I wouldn't want to try a wider stance is because right now I only have two foot positions, pulling and recieving. Pulling = feet under hips, Recieving (squatting) = feet at shoulder width. I had a problem for the longest time of recieving the clean and snatch in too wide of a position so I definitly don't want to do anything to exagerate that problem.
Robert, I discounted your advice real quick on widening my stance but after further analysis, I think I may be recieving the Clean, Snatch, and doing OH Squats with a slightly wider stance then how I am setting up for those Back Squats.....I haven't decided for sure yet.
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