I think you have Orthorexia

[Mike ODonnell]

Meat eaters would miss vegans.....who else can they pick on?

Anyone can make their own choices...I don't really care, not my body to worry about...it's when they "force" themselves upon others as the only way to eat that becomes annoying.

100% low carb camp could be put in with the Paleo and Vegans as well.....well just the loud annoying ones that is.

[Dave Van Skike]

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell

Meat eaters would miss vegans.....who else can they pick on?

smokers......oh wait. most vegans are smokers so we'd lose a bunch right there.

[Patrick Yeung]

Wow, this turned into a flamming thread....

I dont knock vegans, or vegeterians, or whatever they want to be. THey all have their place, and do different things. We are a crowd that is more interested in strength gains and many are looking for low BF and increased power to weight ratio.

When I was an endurance athlete, my diet slowly became more and more vegan, to the point where I was eating about 80%+ raw vegan, without even realizing it. I was making awesome gains, and felt great. I exceled at my sport, and all my blood work/body composition was in 'perfect order' according to my doctor.

Now, this happened for numerous reasons. I was, and still am, a strong supporter of enviornmental conservatism. Vegetables are a much more earth friendly source of nutrients than meat, especially when compared to the commercial farming sorts. I was buying organic, local and what I could find, and afford, was mostly vegetables and fruit.

I know people who sacraficed meat to be more earth friendly, like riding bikes/walking when we could drive, or buying recycled/used materials when we could buy new.

Its really all in the reasons why they are doing it. Those that are doing it because its trendy are doing it all for the wrong reasons. Feel free to make fun of them, just dont group em all together.

But, yeah... I eat lots of meat now. Its all organic and free range, but ive also got a better job too.

[Enrique Billington]

It's actually not true that vegetation is easier on the environment. Crop dusting, the machinery used to uproot and plant vegetables/seeds, their transport by the tons across the continents/open seas, as well as the water and the pesticides (most of what people call organic isn't) all cost far, far more than it does to raise a chicken for a few weeks and cut it's sorry ass head off.

[Enrique Billington]

Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike

This is a good start.

[Patrick Yeung]

Originally Posted by Enrique Billington

It's actually not true that vegetation is easier on the environment. Crop dusting, the machinery used to uproot and plant vegetables/seeds, their transport by the tons across the continents/open seas, as well as the water and the pesticides (most of what people call organic isn't) all cost far, far more than it does to raise a chicken for a few weeks and cut it's sorry ass head off.

Well, youre right, same reason why I stopped eating so much meat at the time.

Industrial farms, raping their land to get every last ounce of energy out of it, while pumping it full of chemical sprays and gasses, are what I beleive to be the most dangerous threat to our enviornment. And, when you factor in that, beef, pork, chicken etc, are raised on these industrially produced crops, they are no better. And, looking at an energy pyramid, you can see that it is not as efficent a source of energy as well.

To get the same amount of calories from grain compared to from meat takes a lot more energy. Now, im not saying that an all grain diet or however you may want to twist it around is best, just that eating vegetables is more enviornemntally friendly.

I personally have a hydroponic garden in my backyard, and plan on expanding it further to feed others as well. No wasted water, no chemicals, no damage to my enviornemtn.

Still trying to convince my parents to let me put chicken's at their house, they dont allow them here.

[Enrique Billington]

Good points, I forgot about home gardening, that would definitely be environmentally friendly and truly organic.

[Gavin Harrison]

Originally Posted by Patrick Yeung

Well, youre right, same reason why I stopped eating so much meat at the time.

Industrial farms, raping their land to get every last ounce of energy out of it, while pumping it full of chemical sprays and gasses, are what I beleive to be the most dangerous threat to our enviornment. And, when you factor in that, beef, pork, chicken etc, are raised on these industrially produced crops, they are no better. And, looking at an energy pyramid, you can see that it is not as efficent a source of energy as well.

To get the same amount of calories from grain compared to from meat takes a lot more energy. Now, im not saying that an all grain diet or however you may want to twist it around is best, just that eating vegetables is more enviornemntally friendly.

I personally have a hydroponic garden in my backyard, and plan on expanding it further to feed others as well. No wasted water, no chemicals, no damage to my enviornemtn.

Still trying to convince my parents to let me put chicken's at their house, they dont allow them here.

I'm not nay saying any of what you're saying, necessarily... but you can grow cows and goats in places you can't grow veggies and grains, and you can grow fish in places you can't really grow much else...

[Dave Van Skike]

as much as I despise agribiz...there are some gross misunderstandings of the metrics of food production i.e: animal husbandry, feed cycles, airable acreage and crop rotation going on up in here.

[Patrick Yeung]

Oh, im definetly painting a "worst case scenerio" out there.

Here is where I want to take my gardening in the end - Aquaponics: Hydroponics + Aquculture. To sum it up, its pretty much a contained nitrogen cycle. Plants filter water that is pumped into tanks of fish, who produce waste, which feed the plants. There are a lot of other factors, but thats the idea.

http://www.growseed.org/aquaponics.html (wfs) - gives you an idea