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Old 04-18-2009, 10:51 AM   #71
Justin Chebahtah
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Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences. Although I haven't really stalled/burnt out yet (other than when I wasn't eating enough), I feel it's good to learn from others experiences and trials. Thanks again guys.

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:05 AM   #72
Spencer Durland
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I just wanted to pick up on a point that Justin, for one, originally mentioned way, way back, which was the need of a first responder to achieve/maintain fitness while remaining able to actually respond. I'm not sure what everyone's background is here, but I know for myself that I have the luxury of being able to go all out without any risk that after completing a crushing chipper or something, I would have to do kick in doors or save people in a burning house. It seems to me that a first responder's training methodology for getting into a conditioned state may be different from maintaining that state, especially in terms of whether or not to push harder through fatigue, plateau, etc. since so much rides on his/her ability to carry out the job's physical demands.

Didn't notice that the last post was 5 days ago, so maybe everyone's done with this thread, but if not, I'd love to hear what you all have to say.

Last edited by Spencer Durland : 04-23-2009 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Human error
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:27 AM   #73
Garrett Smith
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Spencer,
IMO, a first-responder doing crushing workouts of any sort on a "work" day that leaves them unable to do their duties properly would be on par with a surgeon doing activities that affected their coordination negatively enough to cause dangerous errors in their work.

Both groups should save that stuff for their days off. Those poor choices are threatening lives.

There was one post I remember over at CF on a FFer workout log thread where it said something like "after that workout, there will be no babies saved today". That makes me sick and I find it to be extremely irresponsible. Just so happens that I now have a baby and these FFers are in my city.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:08 PM   #74
Spencer Durland
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I certainly agree with your sentiment. I don't want to fall back into a technical discussion of overtraining, overreaching, or adrenal fatigue (for which I am not at all qualified) but I think most can agree that there are times when, for whatever reason, full recovery did not take place. That being the case, I wonder whether, in the case of a first responder, the system used to achieve optimum fitness, as relates to professional demands, differs from the system used to maintain such fitness or at least slow any deterioration.

Even if CF makes me really sore and tired, as long as I can recover for the next day or get through to my off-day, then I'm fine and can continue to strive for the concrete fitness gains that characterize a program like CF. A first responder, on the other hand, has the responsibility to balance fitness gains with the ability to perform on the job. A PR 400 time is useless for a police officer if the effort left him or her unable to run down a suspect the next day. I ardently hope that such balance tips in favor of job performance, but the competitive aspect of CF (or other programs) might make this more difficult.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:02 PM   #75
Gavin Harrison
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Dave,

Your experience with the zercher's / DLs sounds kind of like the ideas behind Block Periodization. Accumulation of training results / fatigue from pounding sand in some related things, then a period of transmutation, where you switch your training to focus on what you want to perform in specifically. I'm kind of assuming you didn't go through a realization period (taper) though, since it doesn't sound like you were competing.

Does this sound about right? Since the delayed transformation of the accumulated training results lasts about 4 weeks, the transmuting mesocycle falls right on the time when you're body is happy about you pounding sand for the last 2-3 months, and can turn the training affects into specific strength for other things.. your Zerchers, for instance.

Weird reading your post after looking through Jeremy Frey's logs the last few days on elitefts and reading about periodization in Science and Practice of Strength Training...
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:37 PM   #76
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
Dave,

Your experience with the zercher's / DLs sounds kind of like the ideas behind Block Periodization. Accumulation of training results / fatigue from pounding sand in some related things, then a period of transmutation, where you switch your training to focus on what you want to perform in specifically. I'm kind of assuming you didn't go through a realization period (taper) though, since it doesn't sound like you were competing.

Does this sound about right? Since the delayed transformation of the accumulated training results lasts about 4 weeks, the transmuting mesocycle falls right on the time when you're body is happy about you pounding sand for the last 2-3 months, and can turn the training affects into specific strength for other things.. your Zerchers, for instance.

Weird reading your post after looking through Jeremy Frey's logs the last few days on elitefts and reading about periodization in Science and Practice of Strength Training...
Really good eye Gavin! I've never really applied block periodization (or any really formalized method) to strength training but I am pretty familiar with the concept from bike racing where I had hits and misses. Misses included "accumulating" a lot of hours of roadwork and cross country skiing and then trying to translate that into MTB race fitness.

I did have one season where I broke off of any mid week mileage rides and skated instead, lots of 100-400 meter efforts and then one day of really really fast but short sprints, basically 5-10 jumps of 50 meters max. That worked really well.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:11 AM   #77
Paul McKirdy
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How much GPP is enough?

Enough to have the mental and physical fortitude to run as fast as you can until you get there, anytime your immediate goal requires it. (a quote from my CC years ago...)
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