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Old 07-14-2009, 01:02 PM   #11
Scott Kustes
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Khalid, I'd shorten the distances if what you want to work on is explosiveness off the line. Your acceleration phase is only going to last maybe 30m before you're fully upright and into max velocity. I think 15 reps is probably too much to give 100% effort. Like I said, I'd stick below 10 reps. Quality over quantity is the game here.

Now, you're 16 and I'm nearly 30, so I have no way to know how you recover from these workouts, but the key is to make sure your effort is high on each rep. If I go out to do 8x30-40m from blocks and after 5, I can tell it's just not there, I stop. There are days for pushing through and days for calling it a day. When doing speed/acceleration work, it's a day for calling it a day.

If you're starting to close the gap after 60m, it sounds like your speed-endurance is good for your speed. Everyone else is slowing down more than you are. I assume you're in off-season now, so it's time to focus heavily on speed. Some other workouts I do to work max speed are:
- Flying 30-50m (30-50m @ 100% with a 10m run-in)
- 20m Sprint-Float (Five 20m zones, 10m run-in, sprint hard the 1st, float the 2nd, sprint hard the 3rd, float the 4th, sprint hard the last)...basically learning to get to top speed and then relax while maintaining (i.e., don't slow down on the "float," just stop pushing to accelerate).

Do you have access to a hill with a very slight incline (like 3-5% grade)? Uphill and downhill sprints can help with speed as well, but not on a steep hill. A steep hill will alter your stride too much.

What are you planning to do on your lifting days?

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Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
I mentioned it as a way to develop power from a dead stop. My understanding is that after that in the sprint, you're mainly banking on reflex speed (plyo or bounding type of stuff) -- but out of the blocks it seems like it would be relevant.

Obviously you'd also need to work on the skill of reacting to the gun and the acceleration technique and so on, but that's just stuff to practice.

No?
It's not going to be detrimental for sure. Just not sure how much carry-over one will actually see. If strength and power are the limiting factor (which for a 16-year old, they might be), some improvement could be made here. I think general improvement of the posterior chain through low-rep, 85%+ 1RM deadlifts and general sprinting workouts will give the biggest bang for the buck given the highly technical demands of learning the O-lifts and the specificity of training the CNS to fire in sprinting.
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:45 PM
Khalid Khalil
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:59 PM   #12
Khalid Khalil
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Yeah Scott I have access to a hill with a incline and its noticeable but not to the point where it alters my stride. Though the hill is well over 100m, its about 170m-210m (also its a road)

In the weightroom I've decided to work on upper body tuesdays and lower bodys thursdays, because I'm also biking to classes (summer college course) 8 miles minimum daily. And I also wanna keep my sprinting days strong on mon-wed-fri.


Upperbody workouts are all high weights and low reps, each week I try to add 10 pounds also, and work from there.

3 reps of bench presses, 8 times each or on days I mix it up and start high and bench 5 times, and then each rep I add 10 pounds and next rep would be 4 times benched, and keep it going until I get to over my maxout limit and doing 1-2 presses on that. I just went from last weeks maxout at 185 to 205 today.

Then I do a curled bar crazy eights, where its high weight and I curl 8 times a small distance to my chest, then 8 half way, then 8 curls from my arm fully extended down to curling the bar all the way to my neck.
3 reps


Also I do dips and pull ups. And I work a fair amount with dumbbells (40-50lbs) flys, etc. Usually I use dumbbells for my shoulders.

My lower body consists of squats, and a machine that works on my hamstring. Also leg presses and cleaners (at times).

I don't remember the name off the top of my head, but I use a bench bar with weights and take it all the way down with my legs straight (so its like im trying to touch my toes) for 3 seconds then back up, 8 times, 3 reps.


lungs are implemented in my drills during sprinting days.

I try to do core workouts at night also.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:20 PM   #13
Brandon Oto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Kustes View Post
It's not going to be detrimental for sure. Just not sure how much carry-over one will actually see. If strength and power are the limiting factor (which for a 16-year old, they might be), some improvement could be made here. I think general improvement of the posterior chain through low-rep, 85%+ 1RM deadlifts and general sprinting workouts will give the biggest bang for the buck given the highly technical demands of learning the O-lifts and the specificity of training the CNS to fire in sprinting.
I'd buy that. For sure in any case I wouldn't be shooting for the full lifts; power cleans or the like are probably just fine. (Maybe not hang though, the angles from the floor seem more pertinent to the sprint start.) Just musing though.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:21 PM   #14
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Listen to what Scott Kustes is saying.

Get the strength up, and work short sprints <70-80m. Full rest
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalid Khalil View Post
Yeah Scott I have access to a hill with a incline and its noticeable but not to the point where it alters my stride. Though the hill is well over 100m, its about 170m-210m (also its a road)
You don't have to run the whole hill. ;-) Just mark off 40m and do 8-10. I usually do 1 up, then 1 down, then 1 up, etc till I get my reps in. Full recovery between reps. This isn't speed-endurance work.

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...Lifting stuff...
Seems a reasonable workout volume, though I'd stick with the compound exercises and ditch the isolation stuff. Deadlifts, squats (depending on if you don't get too sore/tired from them), romanian deadlifts (sounds like that's what you're describing with your "touch your toes" exercise), bench, overhead press, pullups, dips. No need to make this complicated. Up to 5 sets of up to 5 reps, 5:00 or so between sets for full recovery.

Back in the day, I used to do what you call Crazy Eights. We did them as 7 reps and called them 21s. But they're unlikely to help your sprinting. That's a hypertrophy workout. You want to maximize strength with minimal gain in weight, i.e., high weight, low reps.

What's your squat and DL numbers?
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:14 AM   #16
Khalid Khalil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Kustes View Post
You don't have to run the whole hill. ;-) Just mark off 40m and do 8-10. I usually do 1 up, then 1 down, then 1 up, etc till I get my reps in. Full recovery between reps. This isn't speed-endurance work.


Seems a reasonable workout volume, though I'd stick with the compound exercises and ditch the isolation stuff. Deadlifts, squats (depending on if you don't get too sore/tired from them), romanian deadlifts (sounds like that's what you're describing with your "touch your toes" exercise), bench, overhead press, pullups, dips. No need to make this complicated. Up to 5 sets of up to 5 reps, 5:00 or so between sets for full recovery.

Back in the day, I used to do what you call Crazy Eights. We did them as 7 reps and called them 21s. But they're unlikely to help your sprinting. That's a hypertrophy workout. You want to maximize strength with minimal gain in weight, i.e., high weight, low reps.

What's your squat and DL numbers?

not to sure about my DL, but my squat is at 350 now.
I just got back into squatting since freshmen year (which I squatted 325 maxout then)


So you're telling me when I'm benching I should do 5 sets of 5 presses and 5 minutes in between?

I've rarely ever done Cleaners, Olympic lifts, dead lifts. etc.
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:40 AM   #17
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Bodyweight?

I'm more interested in the deadlifting than the benching, squatting and overhead pressing (the upper body stuff is more supplemental). If you're squatting a lot, it will likely affect your ability to sprint the next day. Deadlift doesn't tank me like squats do. And no, not always 5x5. 3x2, 4x1, 5x5, 5x3, 2x4...mix up the weights and reps.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:01 AM   #18
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Read this article:

http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/ar...&articleid=269

This is where a lot of the concepts are coming from and may clear up some misconceptions you may have.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:02 PM   #19
Khalid Khalil
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Quote:
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Bodyweight?

I'm more interested in the deadlifting than the benching, squatting and overhead pressing (the upper body stuff is more supplemental). If you're squatting a lot, it will likely affect your ability to sprint the next day. Deadlift doesn't tank me like squats do. And no, not always 5x5. 3x2, 4x1, 5x5, 5x3, 2x4...mix up the weights and reps.

I guess I have a bad feel for weights, apparently I can do more, I just maxed out at 4 squats of 435lbs at the end of todays workout.



I'm 5'11 184-185 lbs.

I'm not to concerned of getting peak sprinting times in training, as long as it doesnt effect what I get out the next day in my workouts, if my 100% that day isnt as top notched as a 100% in a meet day, I'm fine with that. I won't actually time myself sprinting until the end of august.

I'm still doing lighter weights then all this in cleans. I do like 105lbs cleans 8 times, 3 reps.

Just because the form is kinda foreign to me.


EDIT: to make it more clear, I'll only be concerned with what I'm doing in the weight room if it cuts down my sprinting overall. If it only makes it sore and harder the next day I'm ok.
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:54 PM   #20
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You should be concerned. If you're running is sub-par in training, the adaptation from your training is going to be minimal. If you can't hit top speed in training because your legs are destroyed, you're not progressing. Your strength is not your limiting factor. I'm 185lbs and squat about 80lbs less than you...yet I run 100m nearly a second faster.

You need to be focusing on training your CNS to fire harder and faster...that's going to happen with quality sprinting and plyometrics. Do you do any plyos?

I'll just reiterate that you're going to be better off with deadlifts than squats. Do with that what you will. More than a few real track coaches go with weight programs that are predominantly or entirely deadlifts in the weight room. Single leg lifts are also beneficial, possibly more so than the two-legged squat (since the first .1 seconds of the race when both legs drive into the blocks is the only time that both legs are pushing at the same time).
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