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Old 07-16-2009, 08:15 PM   #21
Khalid Khalil
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You should be concerned. If you're running is sub-par in training, the adaptation from your training is going to be minimal. If you can't hit top speed in training because your legs are destroyed, you're not progressing. Your strength is not your limiting factor. I'm 185lbs and squat about 80lbs less than you...yet I run 100m nearly a second faster.

You need to be focusing on training your CNS to fire harder and faster...that's going to happen with quality sprinting and plyometrics. Do you do any plyos?

I'll just reiterate that you're going to be better off with deadlifts than squats. Do with that what you will. More than a few real track coaches go with weight programs that are predominantly or entirely deadlifts in the weight room. Single leg lifts are also beneficial, possibly more so than the two-legged squat (since the first .1 seconds of the race when both legs drive into the blocks is the only time that both legs are pushing at the same time).

Could I possibly do both of them in a session? Are you saying the only leg workouts I should be doing is isolated muscle parts and dead lifts? Could you possibly walk me through what you would do in my position in the weight room for just clarification.

And I honestly have done plyometrics a few times in my life and that's it, I haven't found a system for it and a routine or anything--its not really implemented in my school sadly.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:15 PM   #22
Steven Low
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Read this article:

http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/ar...&articleid=269

This is where a lot of the concepts are coming from and may clear up some misconceptions you may have.
Dude, did you read this article?

This covers what Scott is talking about.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:20 AM   #23
Matthias Becker
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Are you saying the only leg workouts I should be doing is isolated muscle parts and dead lifts?
He never talked about isolated muscle training. He talked about single leg training like for exmple bulgarian split squats.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:27 AM   #24
Scott Kustes
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Originally Posted by Khalid Khalil View Post
Could I possibly do both of them in a session? Are you saying the only leg workouts I should be doing is isolated muscle parts and dead lifts? Could you possibly walk me through what you would do in my position in the weight room for just clarification.

And I honestly have done plyometrics a few times in my life and that's it, I haven't found a system for it and a routine or anything--its not really implemented in my school sadly.
You're apparently very keen on squatting and quite opposed to giving it up. You can certainly do them both in a session. I just don't think you're going to get much benefit to your sprinting, which you claim is what you want to improve. I think you very well may decrease the quality of your sprinting workouts. Poor workouts are not going to translate into better track meets. Frankly, your program seems a bit broad for wanting to specialize in sprinting. Your strength is not lacking...your ability to convert that strength into power/speed is where you lack.

If what you really want to do is get faster, you can give up the squats and focus instead on deadlifts on gym days. My gym days are pretty much 100% deadlifts and a compound upper body exercise (bench or overhead press), plus some shoulder rehab, isolation type stuff (note that this is for rehab, not to improve my sprinting!).

Matthias nailed it. I don't mean leg curls and extensions. I mean single leg deadlifts, split squats, etc. No clue if they are actually helpful...just thinking through some ideas.

Actually, I haven't done any weight lifting in the past 6 weeks as I focused on my final push to next week's season-ending meet. In that time, my 100m time has dropped about 0.4 seconds. You don't have to be Ben Johnson with his 6x600 full squat to go fast. You need to learn to convert what strength you have more quickly. You're going to do that by sprinting at full intensity and adding some plyometrics. I use this program (START AT THE BEGINNING REGARDLESS OF WHAT LEVEL YOU THINK YOU ARE AT...VOICE OF EXPERIENCE: PLYOMETRICS CAN AND WILL DAMAGE YOU). There may be better programs out there, but this one has been good.

I also wouldn't go 5 days straight. I don't think you're 4th and 5th days are going to be very high quality compared to the others. Again, you possibly recover better than I do, given that you're half my age. But I think a 2-3 on, 1-off would do you better. Looking back over my notes, I rarely go more than 4 days of hard intensity in a week.

Did you read what Steven posted? Please do.
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:35 PM   #25
Khalid Khalil
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You're apparently very keen on squatting and quite opposed to giving it up. You can certainly do them both in a session. I just don't think you're going to get much benefit to your sprinting, which you claim is what you want to improve. I think you very well may decrease the quality of your sprinting workouts. Poor workouts are not going to translate into better track meets. Frankly, your program seems a bit broad for wanting to specialize in sprinting. Your strength is not lacking...your ability to convert that strength into power/speed is where you lack.

If what you really want to do is get faster, you can give up the squats and focus instead on deadlifts on gym days. My gym days are pretty much 100% deadlifts and a compound upper body exercise (bench or overhead press), plus some shoulder rehab, isolation type stuff (note that this is for rehab, not to improve my sprinting!).

Matthias nailed it. I don't mean leg curls and extensions. I mean single leg deadlifts, split squats, etc. No clue if they are actually helpful...just thinking through some ideas.

Actually, I haven't done any weight lifting in the past 6 weeks as I focused on my final push to next week's season-ending meet. In that time, my 100m time has dropped about 0.4 seconds. You don't have to be Ben Johnson with his 6x600 full squat to go fast. You need to learn to convert what strength you have more quickly. You're going to do that by sprinting at full intensity and adding some plyometrics. I use this program (START AT THE BEGINNING REGARDLESS OF WHAT LEVEL YOU THINK YOU ARE AT...VOICE OF EXPERIENCE: PLYOMETRICS CAN AND WILL DAMAGE YOU). There may be better programs out there, but this one has been good.

I also wouldn't go 5 days straight. I don't think you're 4th and 5th days are going to be very high quality compared to the others. Again, you possibly recover better than I do, given that you're half my age. But I think a 2-3 on, 1-off would do you better. Looking back over my notes, I rarely go more than 4 days of hard intensity in a week.

Did you read what Steven posted? Please do.
I'm really fine with switching up my workouts, I just mean I don't know how long 3 sets of deadlifts would take in a gym, like I have a big gap of time in there for what else is whats just confusing, but I think I can do the the single leg things. Sorry it was just hard decoding over all these posts what really needed to be done.

So what do you think my lift days should be? the school I attends weight room closes fridays and weekends

Monday - Sprint
Tuesday - Lift Upper
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Lift Lower
Friday - Ply
Saturday - 2 mile easy run???
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:14 PM   #26
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Khalid.

Read the link.

You're probably irritating everyone because you're not understanding simple concepts that are explained in there. If you don't read it, this thread will very soon get to the point where no one will want to help you.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:52 PM   #27
Khalid Khalil
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Khalid.

Read the link.

You're probably irritating everyone because you're not understanding simple concepts that are explained in there. If you don't read it, this thread will very soon get to the point where no one will want to help you.

Read it, it made alot of sense now-- And I can see from the exampled workout they posted that deadlifts/ply's will actually take a fair amount of time, but also make it a hellvua intensity workout. And from that I'm assuming plyometrics are used during lifting for you guys? This will also be easier then running all over the gym, now I can stick to just one bar.


Scott, that workout you posted for ply training, following that from week one to week 10--do you do that during a lifting day or a sprinting day (or on a day by itself)? Or is that what you were saying you do after each set of deadlifts?
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Old 07-19-2009, 05:57 AM   #28
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It doesn't matter how LONG 3 sets of deadlits takes. It's about quality work, not time in the gym.

You could probably do something like:
Mon - Sprint
Tue - Lift (Deadlift + OH Press or Bench + possibly a few depth jumps after DL sets)
Wed - Sprint
Thur - Rest
Fri - Sprint
Sat - Plyo (on it's own day...these are hard on the legs)

Of course I have never actually SEEN you run and have no clue what it is that you need to do other than what you say you're numbers are. You also don't have to do the same thing every single week.

You might check out these other forums devoted to sprinting. Lots of people far more knowledgable than me over there:
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/index.php
http://bearpowered.prophpbb.com/
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:52 PM   #29
Khalid Khalil
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It doesn't matter how LONG 3 sets of deadlits takes. It's about quality work, not time in the gym.

You could probably do something like:
Mon - Sprint
Tue - Lift (Deadlift + OH Press or Bench + possibly a few depth jumps after DL sets)
Wed - Sprint
Thur - Rest
Fri - Sprint
Sat - Plyo (on it's own day...these are hard on the legs)

Of course I have never actually SEEN you run and have no clue what it is that you need to do other than what you say you're numbers are. You also don't have to do the same thing every single week.

You might check out these other forums devoted to sprinting. Lots of people far more knowledgable than me over there:
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/index.php
http://bearpowered.prophpbb.com/

Thats alot of great info Scott, sorry for the rough start I gave you and everyone in this thread haha. So you believe there's no need for two weight room days? I wanna know the purpose of that change but I will take your word for it being there, even if it is a personal preference (not assuming). The only recording I have of me running a 100m can be described fairly easily.

The gun goes off and I'm the slowest out the blocks, I'm in last place up until the 60 meter mark and I start to blaze past every sprinter up until the guy who was in first from the beginning (one of those "If there was 1 more meter in the race, he would've got him"). The case is always similar to that. My top speed is that of the top guys in my heat, just my start is the weakest out of all sprinters.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:07 AM   #30
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I had the same problem in high school, also running around 180 or so. Pretty big for a high school sprinter. Have you ever thought of running the 200m or 400m instead?

And you don't have a need for a second weights day. You could do perhaps 3 weight sessions per 2 weeks instead of 2 per week, but your strength doesn't appear to be lacking (though I'm taking your word that those 435lb squats were full squats).
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