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Old 10-31-2006, 08:50 AM   #11
Yael Grauer
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Oops, I spent so long rereading that study that I didn't notice Dan John's post pop up. So, uh...the lowest estimate I've read is 58%.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:16 AM   #12
Craig Cooper
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So I guess the answer to my question is that ZMA has no effect if your zinc and magnesium levels are adequate, but it's not likely that your zinc and magnesium levels are adequate, especially if you exercise regularly. Also referencing my last post, is there any evidence to suggest that traditional hunter/gatherer societies had the levels of zinc/magnesium deficiency that America has today?

I've had trouble sleeping for a while, can't get more than 5-6 hours sleep, wake up at least once during the middle of the night. Zinc/Magnesium deficiency is something that I've never considered, so I'm going to give it a try, because I feel like I've tried everything else. I'll report back with my experiences.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:17 PM   #13
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I don't know for sure, but since many of the causes depletion are relatively new inventions, like bread and Coke, I'd guess that most trad. h/gs had better zinc/magnesium than we did. There's a list of things that deplete magnesium if you scroll down here: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html#Deficiency

I don't know much about zinc deficiency, except that it makes you really spacy, which some vegans mistake for spiritual enlightenment. I really want to try that stuff Dan John wrote about because I haven't noticed a difference from taking zinc this go around.

I know that higher amounts of zinc and vit. D mean you need less Mg.

As far as sleeping more, which you'll need to do if you want your endocrine, cardiovascular and immune systems to work properly, here's some suggestions that work for me when I follow them:

-go to bed at the same time each night, ideally no later than 11 (but definitely no later than 1 if at all possible)

-don't work out after 1 PM

-get outside around noon...this is supposed to supress melatonin

-use only candelight or soft, dimmed lights after sunset, or at least for the hour or so before bed. get vertical for about an hour before bed--I usually just do some light reading.

-if you have to stare at bright lights or computer screens late at night, you can wear rose glasses. i found this ridiculous looking pair at the hippie store (they're called "chakra glasses") but can't bring myself to wear them around other people.

-make sure your room is completely dark without any light at all, get heavy curtains and use electrical tape to cover bright blinky things.

-try to eat your last meal about three to six hours before bed, this is supposed to make sure you don't disrupt GH surges

-a slightly warm bath before bed can cool down the metabolism and relax the nervous system, let the water cool down a bit around the end

9+ hours of sleep in a completely dark room for three days in a row is supposed to cure sleep debt.

This is all stuff I've used, but most of my info is from this tabloid book Robb keeps raving about and from this tape: http://www.botanicalmedicine.org/Tapes/03sw/03sw17.htm

Magnesium right before bed helped me get to sleep a lot at first, but now I need to do all the other things too.
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Old 10-31-2006, 06:35 PM   #14
Chris Forbis
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I know ZMA is recommended to be taken on an empty stomach 30 minutes before bed. Does anyone have any experience with taking it on a non-empty stomach? During basketball season dinner comes pretty close to bed (1.5-2 hours) and I typically consider 3 hours post-meal to be "empty."
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Old 10-31-2006, 07:19 PM   #15
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Chris, I used to take it on occasion with a bedtime snack. Didn't decrease it's effectiveness in my experience. Although, once I did burp soon after taking it and likely before it reached my stomach (but after the capsules had dissolved)....I burped a white cloud that burned like the dickens in my throat. I highly recommend suppressing burps for about 10 minutes after taking ZMA.
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:20 PM   #16
Ken Urakawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Kustes View Post
...I burped a white cloud that burned like the dickens in my throat. I highly recommend suppressing burps for about 10 minutes after taking ZMA.
That would make a great parlor trick. I had a friend win a reasonably significant amount of money betting that he could make smoke come out of his, ummmm, nether regions. Little bit of baby powder and some mexican food...
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Old 11-01-2006, 04:33 AM   #17
Allen Yeh
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Other than Yael is everyone else taking ZMA as the combined pill rather than zinc and magnesium seperately (but still at the same time)?

I currently take them seperately but would be open to any ideas contrary. I take 30 mg's of zinc oxide and 400 mgs of magnesium oxide. It seems that most zma products are zinc aspartate as well as magnesium aspartate.
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Old 11-01-2006, 01:43 PM   #18
kevin mckay
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I am going to add zinc and magnesium to my diet after reading this but do not feel compelled to buy them combined as zma am I missing something? I read on wikopedia that zma is simply zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6. I would probably get them in asporate forms as I understand this is more easily absorbed.
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Old 11-01-2006, 02:07 PM   #19
Yael Grauer
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Can anybody look at their bottle and tell me exactly how much magnesium, zinc, B6, and whatever else is in their ZMA? And also what types? It would be nice to not have to pop so many pills and get them all at once, but I was under the impression that you needed to take B6 with B complexes in order for them to be utilized correctly. If I recall correctly, too much B6 can deplete other B vitamins...or some people t hink it's the deficiency of other B vitamins that cause problems.

To switch gears a bit, does anybody know for sure whether MSG is formed in the processing of liquid B vitamins? It says "natural flavors" on the bottle, but I wasn't sure. I'm a B vitamin junkie, and I tried Cataplex B+G and other capsules...but liquid B is so much more effective.
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Old 11-01-2006, 02:17 PM   #20
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Yael, From wikopedia

The proportion of ingredients generally used in products is 20-30 mg Zinc, 400-500 mg Magnesium and ~10mg B6. This supplement should never be taken with calcium, as calcium blocks the absorption of zinc. Any ZMA supplement that has calcium in it should be avoided. ZMA should also be taken before bed on an empty stomach (2 hours after eating your last meal and at least 30 minutes prior to any other supplements).

Sceloporus occidentalis?
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