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Old 11-26-2009, 07:45 AM   #21
Mike Prevost
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Default Resistance and Endurance....no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kayley View Post
What are your thoughts on the relevance of resistance training to aerobic sports performance?

Have you experienced complimentary benefits? If yes, why do you think improved strength increases aerobic performance?
Paul

I do not believe the benefits are there. Honestly, it does not take a degree in exercise physiology to understand that these are two different physiological adaptations. It might seem logical that if you are stronger, you can put more power to the pedals, but, even at high power outputs, force on the pedals is not very much. This is true, even for events like prologue time trials. Look at some of the best cyclists and runners in the world for example. They are able to perform at elite levels with very little limit strength.

Again...force requirements for endurance activities are VERY low. You are better off working endurance than trying to force some improvements through strength training. Honestly, strength training is more likely to interfere with quality workouts. I recall trying to do a time trial after a heavy deadlift day. Not the best experience. Doing that week in and week out would just be counterproductive.

Some will qote research that shows improvements in running economy from strength training. You have to look at these closely. Many are using relatively untrained subjects, and in some cases "strength training" consists of sprints or hill sprints.

Finally, the concurrent endurance/strength training studies generally show more interference with strength adaptations than endurance adaptations. However, some argue that mitochondrial dillution from increased muscle mass is a problem for endurance athletes.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:49 AM   #22
Mike Prevost
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Default Some Research

J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1998 Sep;38(3):201-7.Correlations between peak power output, muscular strength and cycle time trial performance in triathletes. Bentley DJ, Wilson GJ, Davie AJ, Zhou S.

School of Exercise Science and Sport Management, Southern Cross University,
Lismore, NSW, Australia.

OBJECTIVE: To examine the relationship between the peak power output (Wmax),
peak oxygen uptake (VO2peak), lower limb muscular strength and cycling time (CT)
during a short course triathlon race. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: The study involved a
cross-sectional analysis involving both physiological and biomechanical
variables. SETTING: Testing was performed at the exercise physiology and
biomechanics laboratory, School of Exercise Science and Sport Management,
Southern Cross University, Lismore, Australia. PARTICIPANTS: Ten male
triathletes who had been endurance cycle training for a minimum of 12 months
prior to the commencement of the study. MEASURES: Subjects completed a maximal
incremental cycle test as well as a series of muscular function tests including
a 6-s cycle test, a concentric isoinertial squat jump as well as an isokinetic
leg extension test performed at velocities of 60 degrees (s-1, 120 degrees (s-1
and 180 degrees.s-1. In addition, each subject also participated in a triathlon
race of distance 1.5 km swim, 40 km cycle and 10 km run. RESULTS: A significant
correlation existed between CT and absolute VO2 peak and Wmax. However, no
significant correlations were found between the results of the muscular function
tests and the incremental cycle test as well, as CT during the triathlon race.
CONCLUSIONS: Wmax and WDmax are useful variables in assessing cycle performance in triathletes. However, the importance of muscular strength of the lower limbs may be minimal in overall cycle performance during a short course triathlon
race.


Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Jun;31(6):886-91.The effects of strength training on endurance performance and muscle characteristics. Bishop D, Jenkins DG, Mackinnon LT, McEniery M, Carey MF.

Department of Human Movement Studies, The University of Queensland, Brisbane,
Australia. dbishop@wais.org.au

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of resistance
training on endurance performance and selected muscle characteristics of female
cyclists. METHODS: Twenty-one endurance-trained, female cyclists, aged 18-42 yr,
were randomly assigned to either a resistance training (RT; N = 14) or a control
group (CON; N = 7). Resistance training (2X x wk(-1)) consisted of five sets to
failure (2-8 RM) of parallel squats for 12 wk. Before and immediately after the
resistance-training period, all subjects completed an incremental cycle test to
allow determination of both their lactate threshold (LT) and peak oxygen
consumption VO2). In addition, endurance performance was assessed by average
power output during a 1-h cycle test (OHT), and leg strength was measured by
recording the subject's one repetition maximum (1 RM) concentric squat. Before
and after the 12-wk training program, resting muscle was sampled by needle
biopsy from m. vastus lateralis and analyzed for fiber type diameter, fiber type
percentage, and the activities of 2-oxoglutarate dehydrogenase and
phosphofructokinase. RESULTS: After the resistance training program, there was a
significant increase in 1 RM concentric squat strength for RT (35.9%) but not
for CON (3.7%) (P < 0.05). However, there were no significant changes in OHT
performance, LT, VO2, muscle fiber characteristics, or enzyme activities in
either group (P > 0.05). CONCLUSION: The present data suggest that increased leg
strength does not improve cycle endurance performance in endurance-trained,
female cyclists.


Swimming and Strength Training

1: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1993 Aug;25(8):952-9. Links
Dry-land resistance training for competitive swimming.
Tanaka H, Costill DL, Thomas R, Fink WJ, Widrick JJ.
Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN 47306.
To determine the value of dry-land resistance training on front crawl swimming performance, two groups of 12 intercollegiate male swimmers were equated based upon preswimming performance, swim power values, and stroke specialties. Throughout the 14 wk of their competitive swimming season, both swim training group (SWIM, N = 12) and combined swim and resistance training group (COMBO, N = 12) swam together 6 d a week. In addition, the COMBO engaged in a 8-wk resistance training program 3 d a week. The resistance training was intended to simulate the muscle and swimming actions employed during front crawl swimming. Both COMBO and SWIM had significant (P < 0.05) but similar power gains as measured on the biokinetic swim bench and during a tethered swim over the 14-wk period. No change in distance per stroke was observed throughout the course of this investigation. No significant differences were found between the groups in any of the swim power and swimming performance tests. In this investigation, dry-land resistance training did not improve swimming performance despite the fact that the COMBO was able to increase the resistance used during strength training by 25-35%. The lack of a positive transfer between dry-land strength gains and swimming propulsive force may be due to the specificity of training.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:54 AM   #23
Mike Prevost
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Default Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Reynolds View Post
Ideally, training should incorporate both resistance and strength based movements just to make the body more adaptable to varying stimuli. I believe strength helps endurance to the extent that muscular fatigue takes longer to set in.

When I only trained burpees they were brutal. By incorporating ring dips, L-sit pullups, and pistols alongside my routine, muscular fatigue set in later and I could handle longer sets before reaching the anaerobic threshold. Just those three exercises filled in the gaps for me.
No, not for endurance events. It is a time domain thing. Strength training simply does not provide the metabolic challenge to slow twitch muscles that is necessary to improve endurance performance in TRAINED individuals. In untrained individuals, almost anything works.

Strenth training does not make the body more adaptable to endurance training. The extra muscle mass is often detrimental to endurance performance and the strength training workouts can interfere with the quality endurance sessions.

Realize that we are talking about different time domains. Doing burpees for 10 minutes is different than a one hour time trial or a 10 K run.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:07 AM   #24
Tom Fetter
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Perhaps, Mike. But I strongly suspect it does depend both on the specific endurance event, and on the athlete's time spent developing the capacity to apply their gained strength through the energy pathways specific to their sport.

I'm more familiar with rowing ... where a 2k race for well trained but non-elite folks tends to run in the 6.5-7.5 minute range. This is well into the aerobic domain, something like 80% or above of the energy used is through the aerobic pathway ... but the strength demands are substantial throughout.

The research shows that rowing competitiveness correlates not only with a vastly trained aerobic system but also with greater strength, up to a point. That point's relatively low in comparison to the barbell sports (i.e. elite rowers show about 2X bodyweight squats), but relatively high in comparison to, say, cyclists or middle -long distance runners.

The question we're trying to resolve in my house through this year's off-season training is whether it is more productive to gain greater aerobic capacity first, or greater strength. We've tried the first route, through conventional on-the-water training with the rowing club; this Winter, we're trying the second - a primarily strength phase, followed by a primarily aerobic phase. I'll let you know how it's worked out in April.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:59 AM   #25
Steven Low
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Mike:

There's many studies that show positive effects of strength training on endurance.

Of course, diet needs to be programmed to ensure that there is no loss of body mass, AND the strength training MUST be programmed along with concurrent endurance work so that endurance adaptations are not lost.

There is a reason why elite endurance runners and such do have power/strength work in their training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545191
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816215
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978605
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19077735

etc.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:50 PM   #26
Mike Prevost
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Default Strength/Endurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Mike:

There's many studies that show positive effects of strength training on endurance.

Of course, diet needs to be programmed to ensure that there is no loss of body mass, AND the strength training MUST be programmed along with concurrent endurance work so that endurance adaptations are not lost.

There is a reason why elite endurance runners and such do have power/strength work in their training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545191
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816215
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978605
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19077735

etc.
Steven

Study one, strength training prevent loss of stride length..OK...maybe relevant...maybe not. Second..soccer players..not endurance athletes. More of a stop and go sport. Third study a review in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. It is an OK journal. I subscribe, but they have a large pro strength training bias. Not sure I would look there for a balanced review on the subject. Third study, core strength training. Not sure what they did.

Consistently what is found is that in some cases running economy can be improved with some strength training. Probably resulting from an increase in the elastic properties of the muscle (stiffer series elastic component). There is SOME evidence to support strength training for runners, but it is not overwhelming and most elite runners do not employ strength training regularly. Some include some in the off season. Rarely do they continue it into racing season.

For other sports like swimming and cycling, the research is much more consistent; strength training does not improve endurance performance.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:52 PM   #27
Mike Prevost
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Default Rowing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fetter View Post
Perhaps, Mike. But I strongly suspect it does depend both on the specific endurance event, and on the athlete's time spent developing the capacity to apply their gained strength through the energy pathways specific to their sport.

I'm more familiar with rowing ... where a 2k race for well trained but non-elite folks tends to run in the 6.5-7.5 minute range. This is well into the aerobic domain, something like 80% or above of the energy used is through the aerobic pathway ... but the strength demands are substantial throughout.

The research shows that rowing competitiveness correlates not only with a vastly trained aerobic system but also with greater strength, up to a point. That point's relatively low in comparison to the barbell sports (i.e. elite rowers show about 2X bodyweight squats), but relatively high in comparison to, say, cyclists or middle -long distance runners.

The question we're trying to resolve in my house through this year's off-season training is whether it is more productive to gain greater aerobic capacity first, or greater strength. We've tried the first route, through conventional on-the-water training with the rowing club; this Winter, we're trying the second - a primarily strength phase, followed by a primarily aerobic phase. I'll let you know how it's worked out in April.
Rowing is a different animal than endurance running, cycling and swimming.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #28
Donald Lee
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Mike,

Have you read any of the stuff written by the East Germans or former Soviets on aerobic conditioning and special strength training? I haven't read much of their actual work, but I have read some of the stuff of people who apply their work. At least with Verkhoshansky, he doesn't recommend traditional strength training. With long distance runners who do not have any strength training background, he does recommend traditional strength training as a primer for his special strength training recommendations. He primarily utilizes light jumping squats for strength training. He also utilizes cable hip flexor exercises, which I don't know if are useful. In addition, he utilizes slight incline hill runs and skipping-type running with little to no bending of the knees.

I don't know if many elite endurance athletes follow the Block Training Model, but in the block training model for endurance athletes, the various components are developed in this manner:

Block 1 cardiac output and peripheral circulation, oxidative capacity of slow twitch fibers, contractile capacity of slow twitch and fast twitch fibers (LSD, bouncy running, aerobic fartleks, uphill running, etc.)

Block 2 myocardial (contractile) power, contractile capacity of slow twitch and fast twitch fibers, oxidative capacity of fast twitch fibers (repeated and interval running),

Block 3 power output of specific work (interval running and competition running)

Basically, Block 1 is low intensity work on both the running and strength training side. These have the longest residual training effects and interfere with each other the least. Block 2 is higher intensity work. Block 3 brings everything together with specific competition work.

Also, Lyle has an article series going on right now on endurance training that is probably worth reading.

Also, note this from Chapter 9 in "Strength and Power in Sport," which is edited by Paavo Komi. Chapter 9 is written by Walter Herzog and Rachid Ait-Haddou from the University of Calgary:

Quote:
Research that Dr. Herzog has performed indicates that the force-length
relationship of a muscle will adapt to the particular activity the
individual performs. In runners, the in-vivo force-length relationship
of the Rectus Femoris muscle is exactly opposite that of a cyclist. In
runners, in-vivo measurements of the force-length relationship of the
Rectus Femoris muscle revealed a positive slope while for cyclists the
force-length relationship had a negative slope. This occurs because in
running the rf. muscle undergoes a SSC and larger force is required at
longer muscle lengths whereas for cyclists, the rf. muscle only
shortens and force is produced at shorter muscle lengths.

It was concluded that the specific mechanical muscle adaptations that
occur in response to chronic running versus chronic cycling would
prevent a champion in cycling from becoming a champion in running and
vice versa.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:57 PM   #29
Steven Low
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That's a pretty interesting quote Donald. Makes sense though.

I still advise putting some strength work in for athletes.. if I was coaching. I have a friend who's going to be working with some high school athletes soon, and he has a similar approach so we'll see.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:05 PM   #30
Mike Prevost
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Default Endurance

Donald

Have not read any of that stuff. I can see strength training modalities like jumping and sprinting being less of a problem than traditional squats. WHen I was training for Iornman, there was no way I could recover from any lower body strength training and still be able to put in quality sessions in the run and on the bike. I think most elite level endurance athletes would have the same problem. Why fatigue yourself with an exercise modality that has little specificity for your particular event? Besides, if I had an extra 30 minutes, that time was better spent on an extra run.

Stop and go sports like soccer, basketball, and football are different.
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