Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-18-2010, 02:17 PM   #11
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hart View Post
Batman...remember he fought superman in the dark knight series and put up a good show.

I am partial to the snatch..
Only because Superman was a clown! If only Superman was ruthless.....whew! Heat vision from orbit, battle/war is over!
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 02:22 PM   #12
Kevin Perry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,670
Default

I'd say full C&J too, heavier loads like Scott said but the ability to front squat in that movement which transfer very well plus the overhead work involved creates a good stimulus for strength and mass.
Kevin Perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #13
Derek Weaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,642
Default

Didn't Dan John once say that if all you did was the C&J you'd be alright? Or something like that?

these days the extent of my oly stuff are some power cleans now and then.
__________________
Quote:
And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
- CJ Kim
Derek Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 04:51 PM   #14
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Didn't Dan John once say that if all you did was the C&J you'd be alright? Or something like that?

these days the extent of my oly stuff are some power cleans now and then.
I think DJ said clean & press...
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 05:32 PM   #15
Jeff Yan
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
I think DJ said clean & press...
A lot of the arguments here for C&J over snatch are due to the amount of overall weight moved.

Based on this, I can't see how clean & press would be superior to C&J since one's clean potential would be severely limited by the press.
Jeff Yan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 07:49 PM   #16
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Yan View Post
A lot of the arguments here for C&J over snatch are due to the amount of overall weight moved.

Based on this, I can't see how clean & press would be superior to C&J since one's clean potential would be severely limited by the press.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan John
The Summa Liftologica of Daniel John
[...]
Essentially, the simpler the better. The key is to trust that honest hard training on basic core movements leads to improvement in lean muscle, performance, and measured strength. For me, this means Power Snatches, Clean and Press, and Overhead Squats. These three lifts make the discus go farther and my total in the Olympic Lifts go up. If all I do is Power Snatch on Monday, Clean and Press on Wednesday, and Overhead Squat on Saturday, I am going to be at 80plus percent of my best.
My only addition to this is that the press may be more desirable than the jerk because the jerk, like it or not, done properly is a leg-driven lift to "support". People can be very strong at the jerk and barely able to press. This has been observed in both OL and GS KB lifters, jerk like crazy but relatively pathetic at pressing.

On your other note, I'm under the impression that it is observed and believed that if one can snatch, then learning the C&J is relatively easy. However, the converse is not necessarily true.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the desirability of the press vs. the jerk would depend on the context in which one wanted better performance.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 08:51 PM   #17
Arien Malec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Yeh View Post
Only because Superman was a clown! If only Superman was ruthless.....whew! Heat vision from orbit, battle/war is over!
Also, Superman would make a massive kinetic weapon. Just shoot down at high speed from space, and wipe out a whole continent.

On this snatch/clean/c&j thing, what's the freaking training goal?
Arien Malec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 05:58 AM   #18
Jeff Yan
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
On this snatch/clean/c&j thing, what's the freaking training goal?
The goal isn't specified so as to leave it to your interpretation. I figure we could get more viewpoints this way.

-----

In my case, for the past several months I had a forearm/bicep injury. I wanted to limit my pulling so I spent most of my time practicing power snatches (nothing more than 125#) and limiting my cleans to no more than 135#. Just around the time I was finishing up PT for that injury I ended up hurting my shoulder and it's painful for me to go overhead. So now I'm gradually increasing weight on my clean, but I'm avoiding snatching.
Jeff Yan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 06:54 AM   #19
Scott Kustes
Senior Member
 
Scott Kustes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
On your other note, I'm under the impression that it is observed and believed that if one can snatch, then learning the C&J is relatively easy. However, the converse is not necessarily true.
However, if you're not competing in Oly lifting, the snatch is relatively unimportant. For people not competing in Oly, the C&J/C&P will likely be more beneficial to their sport due to ease of learning (why would a sprinter, gymnast, football player, etc want to spend a ton of time learning snatch technique?) and the greater overall loading. Really, outside of people actually competing in Oly, is there a benefit to including the snatch?
__________________
Scott

Fitness Spotlight
Scott Kustes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:24 AM   #20
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Kustes View Post
However, if you're not competing in Oly lifting, the snatch is relatively unimportant. For people not competing in Oly, the C&J/C&P will likely be more beneficial to their sport due to ease of learning (why would a sprinter, gymnast, football player, etc want to spend a ton of time learning snatch technique?) and the greater overall loading. Really, outside of people actually competing in Oly, is there a benefit to including the snatch?
Meh. Argue with Bill Starr.
http://journal.crossfit.com/2010/01/snatch.tpl
Quote:
The full snatch is one of the most complicated movements in all of sports. An athlete has to pull a weight upward with force and speed, then completely reverse his mental keys to explode downward under the still-moving bar. To be able to perform a snatch with a maximum poundage is a feat of strength without peer.

Full snatches have value for all athletes because they involve so many of the larger muscle groups in a dynamic fashion. In fact, every muscle in the body is activated during the execution of a full snatch, including smaller groups such as the biceps and calves.

The snatch is a high-skill movement, so every rep requires absolute concentration on the part of the athlete, which means the nervous system receives much more stimulation than when a static exercise is done. Whenever an athlete masters the technique in the full snatch, he has learned to trigger the necessary form cues instantly, and this skill is transferred to all his other athletic endeavors.

In other words, learning how to do a full snatch benefits not only strength but many other athletic attributes, such as flexibility, coordination, foot speed, balance, timing, determination and mental acuity.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator