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Old 01-20-2010, 01:47 PM   #191
henry whitaker
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Gant,

What would be a good oly template to use in conjunction with 5/3/1 with this type of program? I have long been following the hybrid-type programming that you outlined a while back, but have always struggled with the oly portion of the program once getting beyond the novice stage.



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Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
My log differed from the template because of some different things I was trying to do at the time.

I liked the program, and it did a lot of people some good, but I would offer an even simpler version at this point.

For GPP:

M: Snatch, Bench (or push press), Squat
T: Plyo, SM implements, sprints
W: rest
R: Clean, Press, Deadlift
F: skill, stretch, prowler/sled stuff

*for 5-days, add W: skill work, sprints; rest R and train F and S.

Use OLY progressions for the OLY lifts.

For the slow lifts, do 3x5 as a novice and 5/3/1 as an intermediate. If you get stale after a couple years, do 3x12, 3x10, 3x8, 3x6 for three weeks at a time and reset.

I never wrote the article for PM because I didn't want to add to the signal-to-noise ratio on the interwebs. CFFB and CFSB came out several months after the hybrid program and offered more specialized programming with more support.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:16 PM   #192
Gant Grimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry whitaker View Post
Gant,

What would be a good oly template to use in conjunction with 5/3/1 with this type of program? I have long been following the hybrid-type programming that you outlined a while back, but have always struggled with the oly portion of the program once getting beyond the novice stage.
That depends what priority you put on the OLY lifts. Are you using them simply to develop more explosive power, or do you actually want to get good at them? We're talking about a time commitment here. E.g., I can move a decent amount of weight, but I don't do them well at all. They help with with explosive power, but not as much as if I spent more time on them.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:19 PM   #193
henry whitaker
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I'm trying to use them to develop explosive power. Sure, I'd like to get good at them, but I don't think I can spend more than one or so days a week training C&J and Sn respectively and recover from everything else I'm doing. I've seen some Oly periodization templates on their own, but they seem to be for people who just pretty much care about increasing their oly totals.

What interested me about the template you proposed is that it seems like a way to periodize for the slow lifts while maintaining GPP, hopefully with the goal of making slow steady gains in strength, which is just fine with me. I was just asking whether you (or anyone else) had a suggestion for a template that will do that for the oly lifts too in the context of the type of program you propose. I am a recovering CrossFitter and trying to get away from the "do random workouts and hope it works" approach to training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
That depends what priority you put on the OLY lifts. Are you using them simply to develop more explosive power, or do you actually want to get good at them? We're talking about a time commitment here. E.g., I can move a decent amount of weight, but I don't do them well at all. They help with with explosive power, but not as much as if I spent more time on them.
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:49 AM   #194
Alex Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry whitaker View Post
I'm trying to use them to develop explosive power. Sure, I'd like to get good at them, but I don't think I can spend more than one or so days a week training C&J and Sn respectively and recover from everything else I'm doing. I've seen some Oly periodization templates on their own, but they seem to be for people who just pretty much care about increasing their oly totals.

What interested me about the template you proposed is that it seems like a way to periodize for the slow lifts while maintaining GPP, hopefully with the goal of making slow steady gains in strength, which is just fine with me. I was just asking whether you (or anyone else) had a suggestion for a template that will do that for the oly lifts too in the context of the type of program you propose. I am a recovering CrossFitter and trying to get away from the "do random workouts and hope it works" approach to training.
If you don't care about your oly numbers themselves, there are lots of ways of developing explosive power besides the olys which may require less technique work and total time and effort. For example, I don't think the snatch is that functional in ways, since it demands so much specialized technique work to get it right. Obviously a snatch demands explosiveness, body control, etc, but if I want to develop all those qualities, would it be faster and easier to do it by getting my snatch to X# or by getting my speed squat to Y# at high speed, or my power clean+push press to Z#? This is a question you have to answer for yourself. Personally, I don't think I'll be doing snatches, except when a meet I want to be in is upcoming, for a while. They just require too much technique time to get right. Think about speed squats and DLs, power cleans/snatches and push presses as opposed to the classic olys, or the explosive strongman movements. Or maybe the olys work great for you, but try it out.

Strength comes first. Unless you are already quite strong, get your squat, press, bench, and deadlift up first, and let the explosiveness take care of itself as you put 100# on your squat.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:24 AM   #195
Daniel Schenck
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I tried 5/3/1 but found it actually took more out of me (I did the 4 day a week version, so maybe that's why), and the AMRAP made it hard to plan my training/progression. What I've been doing now is Texas Method, but keeping the volume days at 3x5 (rather than 5x5), and doing 5/3/1 on the heavy day (without the AMRAP of course). That saves me time on volume day and helps my recovery, too. I think it would be easy enough to throw some GPP in on the light day, or on a separate day.

Last edited by Daniel Schenck : 01-23-2010 at 10:38 AM. Reason: left out info
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:21 AM   #196
Gant Grimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry whitaker View Post
I'm trying to use them to develop explosive power. Sure, I'd like to get good at them, but I don't think I can spend more than one or so days a week training C&J and Sn respectively and recover from everything else I'm doing. I've seen some Oly periodization templates on their own, but they seem to be for people who just pretty much care about increasing their oly totals.

What interested me about the template you proposed is that it seems like a way to periodize for the slow lifts while maintaining GPP, hopefully with the goal of making slow steady gains in strength, which is just fine with me. I was just asking whether you (or anyone else) had a suggestion for a template that will do that for the oly lifts too in the context of the type of program you propose. I am a recovering CrossFitter and trying to get away from the "do random workouts and hope it works" approach to training.
If you really suck at the lifts, do moderate intensity, high volume, e.g. doubles at 75-85%. If you're decent, you can ratchet up the intensity and mix singles and doubles. You'll just have to find a mix that works for you. Vary the intensity and vary the rest between lifts.

Not trying to duck the answer, but it's an individual thing. That's a big reason I do power cleans and snatches.
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:24 AM   #197
Gant Grimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Schenck View Post
I tried 5/3/1 but found it actually took more out of me (I did the 4 day a week version, so maybe that's why), and the AMRAP made it hard to plan my training/progression. What I've been doing now is Texas Method, but keeping the volume days at 3x5 (rather than 5x5), and doing 5/3/1 on the heavy day (without the AMRAP of course). That saves me time on volume day and helps my recovery, too. I think it would be easy enough to throw some GPP in on the light day, or on a separate day.
There will be some tailoring at the intermediate level. I would hesitate to take the volume out of volume day, though on the Texas Method.

On my 531, I took the AMRAP out of week 2 on squats and deads (I may still change wk2 DL to rack pulls). I just do 3s and walk. I still get some benefit, and I recover better for the heavy week.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:45 AM   #198
matthew brewster
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Hi Folks
This is my first post but ive been a long time lurker,
I just have a question with regards to using this template to get my fitness back to where it was 18 months ago prior to an SI joint injury and generally feeling very beaten up from a combination of self programming too many chipper metcons and using poor technique to get good times on main page workouts.

so its time to begin again.

I would like to use the template to improve my fitness for job related performance as a Firefighter.

Im just wondering if a ten min metcon will be sufficient for my needs as most of my work seems to be in the 15 - 30 min range of hard slog, and i still have an annual fitness test to pass so i need good cardio as a priority although strength is still very important just secondary to my needs ( is this one of the stages of a recovering metcon junkie ???),
Would i be better increasing the motcon time to around 15 - 20 mins or just
working with the 10 min window and adding a day of sprints and maybe 1 long metcon in the 20 min range ?

stats to give you an idea of were im at currently

male 30 years old 98kg (yep if got fat as well as lazy)
military press - 72.5 kg
Dead lift -155 kg
C & j 75 kg
b squat 120 kg
f squat 100 kg
snatch 50 kg

500m row 1.33
2000 m row 7.25


many thanks
Matt
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:30 PM
Rafael Susigan
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:09 PM   #199
Jay Guindon
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Hey Gant, you mentioned you never published the hybrid program for the PM because CrossFit Football and CrossFit Strength Bias came out shortly after.
I also noticed that for not being CrossFit, your program makes people better at all the things CrossFit is designed for i.e. random physical tasks, unknown/unknowable, GPP, etc.
For "off the shelf" programming would you reccommend CrossFit Football as close to you hybrid program? (obviously it lacks the static gymnastic work, but seems to be quite similar in other respects)
I have been doing Gymnastic Bodies for the past year and a bit but am starting to miss the variety of mixed programs. I've been looking at CFFB and like it but also like the hybrid program. the draw of CFFB though is that it requires no thought, I just grab the WOD for the day. So I guess what I'm getting at is if CFFB is in your opinion as effective as your hybrid program has been?
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