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Old 09-22-2010, 01:22 PM   #11
John Alston
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
John Broz has continually said on the internet that his interest in building weightlifters is mainly guided by making money and taking his lifters to any country that pays and supports them the best
Good for him. That's an honesty I can support. It's a good goal, too. If someone has the potential to be a world class lifter it makes sense that they would try to be somewhere that their world class talent is appreciated.
The countries that kick our (USA) asses in WL (all?) pay for medals. I don't support tax payer funded prizes. Go to where you're appreciated and can do your thing. I can dream of winning the lottery and running meets with 6 figure prize pools...
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:12 PM   #12
Andrew Wilson
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In just 16 weeks, I dug myself quite a hole. I believe I've been to the "dark times," but I obviously did not have a favorable adaptation. Perhaps I'm being myopic, but I often look at science, like biochemistry, as laws of cause and effect.
Hey Chad do you happen to have a log of this (16wk of workouts) ? I'd like to take a look at that
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:24 PM   #13
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Chad, I believe the hole you dug was in process for a lot longer than 16 weeks....
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:51 PM   #14
Tyler Micheli
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I don't support tax payer funded prizes.
Which is a practice not done in the US. The USOC operates independently of and without any financial support from the US government.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:27 PM   #15
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Chad, I believe the hole you dug was in process for a lot longer than 16 weeks....
I won't disagree with you there. I'm sure my years of abusing my CNS and disregard for periodization and recovery played a serious role. But, at least in my mind, I picture it as, here I was kicking ass, sub 4 minute Fran, Diane, Grace, Elizabeth, benchmark workouts. Then I trained my ass off for 16 weeks, and suddenly the "machine" started "malfunctioning" and I wasn't feeling more like my ass was getting kicked by the workouts. But yes, you're completely correct, this was a long process.

I'm not bashing Broz, as a matter of fact, I'm quite impressed with him and his gym. I'm just struggling to understand the science of the article I posted. I'm not trying to criticize his programming either. It's not like he created Bulgarian training, but I find his implementation of it very intriguing. I'm simply trying to make sense of what I'm reading and figure out how he does it.

I know this seems out of left field, but here's where my thought process started.

Way back when, in another lifetime, I was a hockey player. I woke up at 4am, went to rink and practiced for an hour, went to school, went back to rink at 3pm, went home for dinner and homework, and then went back to rink that evening for a game or a practice. I did that 5-7 days a week, from about 10 to 17 years old. I cannot recall ever feeling "overtrained." Sure, playoffs I was beaten black and blue. And when at 16, I started trying to play junior hockey in an under 20 league, I got beaten so bad I had teachers asking me if my parents were abusing me, but I was never feeling "beaten down" from the volume of training.

In college, I was a runner. I worked my way up to 10 miles a day, five days a week. I'd get up and run 5, go to class all day, and then run 5 more after classes. I also weighed 110 pounds standing at 5'8". I also had a max back squat of 50 pounds just to keep things in perspective During that time, I don't remember feeling "overtrained" either.

Then I found Gym Jones, and later Crossfit. And once I started doing Crossfit, I started getting into overtraining.

Now, reading Broz's post, it sounds to me like if you just keep pushing through the "dark times" your body will just adapt, and you'll have a positive adaptation to the stressors. Now, perhaps this adaptation happened to me during those years when I played hockey and was running all those senseless miles during college.

But, following Crossfit, suddenly that adaptation doesn't occur? Or further, when my training shifted towards a mix of Crossfit and long swims and runs, the favorable adaptation to training volume didn't occur. According to the neurobiologist in the article, my body should've just upregulated the necessary neurotransmitters.

As Dr. G pointed out, the randomness of exercises and long distance training is a recipe for disaster. But, in line with what Steven was saying about having a training base built from a young age, I kind of thought I had one.

Now, having experienced the effects of overtraining and the stress fractures and injuries that seem to just come out of nowhere, I can't imagine trying to follow a program that has you squatting 6 days a week or lifting 2x a day 7 days a week even if you worked up to it adding 1 session per year.

I guess I have a few answers so far though, which leads me to believe that this type of training can only be applied to weightlifting, and that the loading of volume is a long term process.

I've been googling this for 2 days now, and I still cannot find an explanation that satisfies my curiosity. I just can't understand why if it's all a neurological adaptation and you can adapt to a sport as demanding and stressing as weightlifting; why then could you not adapt to long distance running, Crossfit, or other programs?
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:28 PM   #16
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Hey Chad do you happen to have a log of this (16wk of workouts) ? I'd like to take a look at that
Shoot me an email, and I'll give you an overview. I log everything.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:19 AM   #17
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Then I found Gym Jones, and later Crossfit. And once I started doing Crossfit, I started getting into overtraining.

Now, reading Broz's post, it sounds to me like if you just keep pushing through the "dark times" your body will just adapt, and you'll have a positive adaptation to the stressors. Now, perhaps this adaptation happened to me during those years when I played hockey and was running all those senseless miles during college.

But, following Crossfit, suddenly that adaptation doesn't occur? Or further, when my training shifted towards a mix of Crossfit and long swims and runs, the favorable adaptation to training volume didn't occur. According to the neurobiologist in the article, my body should've just upregulated the necessary neurotransmitters.
The thing with CrossFit though, is that it isn't a specific event, specific motor pattern, specific forces or specific energy that your body can progressively adapt to like in hockey and running, which have all those specifics. It's just some guy posting interesting pattern of any combination of exercises with random reps and loads to make it hard and make the client think they're weak so they'll keep buying the product that's suppose to make them better. It's not GPP or work capacity, its not even close. Nor is it structured to allow your body to legitimately progress. Legitimate GPP and work capacity like in track and field is just high volume, low intensity strength training and running/sprinting to prepare the athlete for high intensity training that mimics competition. The CrossFit style doesn't allow the progressive adaptation so you're continually beaten down until the only thing you adapt to is sweating and pushing/pulling random things. So people get hurt or hate it or quit, or do more of it to get better at sweating and pushing/pulling more random things hahaha

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Shoot me an email, and I'll give you an overview. I log everything.
Great! I'll send you a PM
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:44 AM   #18
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If you're randomly switching sports, and randomly gaining weight that's not building a base.... especially if you're not weightlifting.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:00 AM   #19
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Which is a practice not done in the US. The USOC operates independently of and without any financial support from the US government.
Yes, I know, which was to my point.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:17 PM   #20
Nicholas Wyss
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Even CrossFit isn't completely random, there are limits to what you do in a CrossFit workout. I'm sure over time you can adapt to CrossFit as well. It's just easier to overtrain with CrossFit because the volume is high, there are a variety of movements, and they encourage you working until you puke.

You could overtrain with even a a single movement like squats if you upped the volume quickly enough. Take someone who doesn't squat and have them do 10x3, 5x5, 3x10, 5x20, and 200 air squats 7 days a week. They'd probably get tendinitis before they burned out, but I guess that's another way CrossFit wears on the CNS more, the variety of movements allow you to work around tendinitis in certain joints to keep blasting yourself.
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