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Old 09-30-2010, 04:47 PM   #11
Derek Weaver
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Does anyone have that article Rip wrote maybe 6-9 months ago about the two novices? The one that Lyle got all screwed up and pissed about for no real good reason?

That would be a good one to post up if anyone's got it. Lyle reaction could be left out though.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:03 AM   #12
Gant Grimes
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I don't know, but Zach was the trainee he mentioned. And everything Rip said about him was true. He was a skinny, undersized dude who put on a lot of mass (some of it fat). Nothing that should surprise anybody.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:12 AM   #13
Peter Dell'Orto
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Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Does anyone have that article Rip wrote maybe 6-9 months ago about the two novices?
Do you mean this one?

http://startingstrength.com/articles...t_rippetoe.pdf (wfs)

I never read any reaction from Lyle McDonald on it, but I remembered where I read an article about novices by Mark Rippetoe.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:33 AM   #14
Steven Low
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There was a whole thing about Lyle ripping on it being impossible or something.

Anyway, yeah, "the novice effect" is a pretty good thing to read for most beginning weightlifters.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:58 AM   #15
Derek Weaver
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Originally Posted by Peter Dell'Orto View Post
Do you mean this one?

http://startingstrength.com/articles...t_rippetoe.pdf (wfs)

I never read any reaction from Lyle McDonald on it, but I remembered where I read an article about novices by Mark Rippetoe.
Thanks, that's it.

Like Steven said, Lyle got all bent out of shape because he thought there was no way it could be possible.

Like Gant said, the kid was skinny and put on a ton of weight, with a decent amount of fat, but plenty of muscle.

I think that article should be mandatory reading when someone signs up for a gym membership.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:23 PM   #16
Kevin Perry
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Thanks, that's it.

Like Steven said, Lyle got all bent out of shape because he thought there was no way it could be possible.

Like Gant said, the kid was skinny and put on a ton of weight, with a decent amount of fat, but plenty of muscle.

I think that article should be mandatory reading when someone signs up for a gym membership.
Reading that article makes me wonder if I could pull off some more linear progressions some times. very tempting.

But yea, Lyle had a big thread about it on his site and Rip had one on his site by the other members I think and it turned into one big bash fetish
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:16 PM   #17
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Reading that article makes me wonder if I could pull off some more linear progressions some times. very tempting.

But yea, Lyle had a big thread about it on his site and Rip had one on his site by the other members I think and it turned into one big bash fetish
You won't know unless you try.

That's when I checked out on Lyle's training advice. The fact that he could not fathom those types of (not uncommon) gains told me a lot. He's still a good read for nutrition, though.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:40 AM   #18
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I think what may have happened is that Zack gained a lot, not some, fat and a lot of muscle, glycogen, and water. 1 lb increase in LBM does not equal 1 lb increase in muscle mass. Everyone on both sides were getting their panties twisted over semantics.

Also, Rip's ppl are more concerned with getting big (70s big), while Lyle's ppl are more concerned with being ripped. Different approaches appeal to different folks. While the amount of fat gain may not look like much to Rip's ppl, it would look like a lot to Lyle's ppl.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:47 PM   #19
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I think what may have happened is that Zack gained a lot, not some, fat and a lot of muscle, glycogen, and water. 1 lb increase in LBM does not equal 1 lb increase in muscle mass. Everyone on both sides were getting their panties twisted over semantics.

Also, Rip's ppl are more concerned with getting big (70s big), while Lyle's ppl are more concerned with being ripped. Different approaches appeal to different folks. While the amount of fat gain may not look like much to Rip's ppl, it would look like a lot to Lyle's ppl.
No need to apologize for Lyle. The whole dispute was over Lyle's claim that a person could only expect to gain 0.5 lb/wk of muscle mass and Rip's examples of people gaining more. Sure, LBM is composed of more than muscle mass, but are you gonna stand by Lyle's 0.5/wk figure?
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
No need to apologize for Lyle. The whole dispute was over Lyle's claim that a person could only expect to gain 0.5 lb/wk of muscle mass and Rip's examples of people gaining more. Sure, LBM is composed of more than muscle mass, but are you gonna stand by Lyle's 0.5/wk figure?
And that nobody could possibly be getting that strong that quickly was later tacked on.
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