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Old 10-19-2010, 07:05 AM   #31
Brian DeGennaro
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Yes I have. It works very well as long as you recover as hard as you train. I only stopped double sessions with that volume and intensity because of a few personal factors but I was seeing progress in technique, speed, repetitions, and weight.

Really, it's just practicing the movements, with a lot of volume, as often as possible. In short, that's how you get good at lifting (and this has always been my view on anything before I got into lifting or heard about Abadjiev/Broz/Pendlay). Bulgarians took it to one extreme because I could still walk away to class after double sessions, from what I've heard many Bulgarians crawled away from the platforms to bed or eat.

When other things in your life get in the way, you can do it in principle, just practice the movements as often as possible as perfectly and as fast as possible until your form/speed breaks down. It'd be nice if you could go as heavy as possible each day with that but you don't "need" to if your recovery methods aren't focused all around the lifting. Just practice with a decently heavy weight for the day.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:23 AM   #32
Jarod Barker
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Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post
Yes I have. It works very well as long as you recover as hard as you train. I only stopped double sessions with that volume and intensity because of a few personal factors but I was seeing progress in technique, speed, repetitions, and weight.

Really, it's just practicing the movements, with a lot of volume, as often as possible. In short, that's how you get good at lifting (and this has always been my view on anything before I got into lifting or heard about Abadjiev/Broz/Pendlay). Bulgarians took it to one extreme because I could still walk away to class after double sessions, from what I've heard many Bulgarians crawled away from the platforms to bed or eat.

When other things in your life get in the way, you can do it in principle, just practice the movements as often as possible as perfectly and as fast as possible until your form/speed breaks down. It'd be nice if you could go as heavy as possible each day with that but you don't "need" to if your recovery methods aren't focused all around the lifting. Just practice with a decently heavy weight for the day.
Brian, I really like your word choice and that answer. I think I finally see where this high volume training comes from. You say practicing movements. I think that alot people look at weightlifting as an exercise and therefore use maximal weights to build strength. However, if it was treated as a sport, I think people wouldn't question the idea of lifting every single day. Not to get nostalgic here, but in my youth, I played many different sports. I practiced or played every day. We view this as acceptable in most sports, you practice everyday, unless you have a game. I did this for baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, every sport. No one ever accused me of "overpracticing."

I think that weightlifting can be treated the same way because after all, the most important part is technique. And how else do you build technique but the same way you learn any other skill, practice. Perhaps maxing out every day is a bit extreme, and there probably isn't really a great need to squat every single day, but to do the lifts everyday is just as important as a basketball player practicing his jump shot everyday or a tennis player practicing his serve everyday.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:46 AM   #33
Arien Malec
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BTW, shorter Chaos and Pain:

CKD on weekly cycle.
3 heavy days/week, with multiple sets of singles, doubles and triples in a density format
3 lighter days/week

It's brilliant, in its simplicity.

(Oh, and fat burners + test)
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:09 PM   #34
Samuel Hughes
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Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
BTW, shorter Chaos and Pain:

CKD on weekly cycle.
3 heavy days/week, with multiple sets of singles, doubles and triples in a density format
3 lighter days/week

It's brilliant, in its simplicity.

(Oh, and fat burners + test)

Sorry, that looks like a very brief summary... is that what you intended or are you saying something else?
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Current Lifts (December 2010): BW 166lbs; 285lb Bench Press; 315lb Squat; 175lb Overhead Press; 405lb Deadlift; 205lb Power Clean
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:35 PM   #35
John Alston
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is this what you are looking for SH?
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #36
Brian DeGennaro
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Chad, exactly my point. Weightlifting is a SPORT. You have to practice the lifts to get good at the lifts just as much as you have to practice pitching, hitting, hurdling, pole vaulting, gymnastics, and every other movement routinely with diligence and form in mind. Musicians practice all the time too. My brother is a writer and that's all he does with his free time too.

My first exposure to training was Pavel's PTP, and from there I found an archive of old time strongmen articles and books. They never "worked out" because that meant you worked yourself out, to fatigue or worse. They trained and practiced. Over time this practice can be built to maximal and submaximal weights almost daily. You need to get your stuff dialed in firsthand, both recovery and form.

It BOGGLES me when I mention squatting more than 3x a week or lifting more than 5x a week, upwards of 14x in order to get better and people look at me like I'm insane or that it's wrong or overtraining. I see that as diligence. If you make the mistake and "work yourself out" then it's bad but if you don't "work yourself out" then you'll recover between sessions. I'm going to get a PVC pipe for my room to practice the movements between study breaks.

Samuel, read and reread what I'm saying. Ask yourself, are you "working out" or are your practicing?
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:13 PM   #37
Samuel Hughes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
is this what you are looking for SH?
exactly.
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Current Lifts (December 2010): BW 166lbs; 285lb Bench Press; 315lb Squat; 175lb Overhead Press; 405lb Deadlift; 205lb Power Clean
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:02 PM   #38
Kevin Perry
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I like Brian's view of it. "Practice" whatever it is you want to do and go by feel and practice as much as you feel you can and want to.

Just make sure you sleep enough and eat right.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:26 PM   #39
Samuel Hughes
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Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post

Samuel, read and reread what I'm saying. Ask yourself, are you "working out" or are your practicing?
That was a very effective question. My instinct is definitely to say that I'm working out. I don't consider myself a strength athlete. Lifting is and has been something I do to stay active and hopefully put myself in a good position to succeed in whatever activities I have going on... though those have been few the past few years. Thanks that actually gave me a lot of perspective.
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Current Lifts (December 2010): BW 166lbs; 285lb Bench Press; 315lb Squat; 175lb Overhead Press; 405lb Deadlift; 205lb Power Clean
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:21 PM   #40
Arien Malec
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Oh man, you are going to do this, huh?

OK, hand holding.

First, decide if you want to follow Mr C&P down the path of various supplements.

He's on, by his admission, an ECA or ECY stack constantly (I assume not during his refeeds, 'cause that would be silly). That's insane, but probably explains the overall tone of the blog and the 5% BF.

He proposes, at various times, various strategies for test modulation, ranging from 3x daily emissions, manually stimulated if necessary, to tribulus, to prohormones to actual, y'know, test. On the other hand (so to speak), his 3x daily habit he describes as keeping him away from male HRT.

Diet:

Ketogenic, paleo, lower than maintenance carbs except for 2 free high carb (decidedly non-Paleo) refeeds weekly. (In this area, refeeds should come less frequently the higher %BF you are). Bias towards chicken-wings (except that he quotes approvingly of Pavel that chicken will make you weak and says to eat beef. So whatever). I assume the refeeds come after exercise.

Lifting:

3xweek, do as many triples of basic compound lifts in a 20 minute period as you can, doing 2-3 compound lifts/session, biasing towards squats, cleans, snatches, and btk push presses and push jerks, bench presses, and other stuff of that ilk. As you become acclimated to triples, go to doubles and singles.
3xweek, do bodyweight exercises (dips, pullups, etc.)
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:12 AM
Samuel Hughes
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