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Old 03-11-2011, 05:14 PM   #11
Dan Mulqueeney
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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
However, something the REQUIRES supplementation (e.g. that which has only cropped up post 1950s) which vege/veganism has isn't exactly comforting to relative health given our past evolutionary history. Especially since meat literally made us human.
Yes, Humans had to eat meat and bugs and fish and everything. But technology and industrialization, with the mass farming and transport of veggies and fruit and the production of supplements, has given us a choice. We can choose not to kill animals.

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Why do you need to go completely vegan then? I have seen very happy chickens and dairy cows happily laying eggs and producing milk.
In the case of milk and eggs, its not always the animal itself which is suffering, but others. Dairy cows have to give birth at least yearly in order to produce milk. The calves are removed from their mothers very young and killed for dog food.
Chickens have a laying life of about a year to two years, So huge amounts of new chickens need to be born every year to replace them. Billions of chicks are hatched and billions of male chicks, which can't lay, are literally minced alive.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Dean View Post
What about small fish and shellfish? I can understand how people have ethical issues with raising a cow just to eat it, but sardines, shrimp or clams don't really fit the description of "smart, feeling animals". Bivalves barely have any nervous system at all and even crustaceans don't have true brains. Crustaceans are little different from insects and spiders, if you can swat a fly without remorse you should be able to eat a shrimp. Speaking of insects, there's another great source of animal protein that is completely free of ethical hangups. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...340020728.html
I guess your right. According to this link http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/c...e/shelly-e.htm (Safe) Insects, Crustaceans and Molluscs don't feel pain and are not included in legislation regarding cruelty to animals. Fish are accepted as feeling pain and other emotions (although the link doesn't address this). I haven't really thought about this aspect much. I'll do some research and think about this. I guess I still feel compassion towards them.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:43 PM   #12
Derek Weaver
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I'm starting to wonder if this is a troll thread.
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:02 PM   #13
Dan Mulqueeney
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I'm starting to wonder if this is a troll thread.
Nah, I'm legit. Friend me on facebook, whatever. My original question was how to optimize my diet for strength within certain boundaries. Mike Mahler was a great suggestion, thanks. I've been reading his articles and his workout log on IGX.
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Old 03-12-2011, 05:44 AM   #14
Darryl Shaw
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SHocker but I was vegan for 15 years and then vegetarian...I did macrobiotics, raw food, the works. And ya know what got me back to eating REAL food? WHen I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes and elevated cholesterol from eating a diet high in grains etc. The "top" US nutritionist said I wasnt eating enough grains. WTH? That is all I was eating along with soy this and and bean that.

I switched gradually...first fish, then chicken, then meats, etc. I am far healthier and stronger now.
Obviously I can't explain why you might have developed diabetes but I will say that generally speaking diets based on whole grains and legumes are associated with a reduced risk of diabetes and other chronic diseases.

Whole-grain and fiber intake and the incidence of type 2 diabetes.

Whole-grain intake is favorably associated with metabolic risk factors for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease in the Framingham Offspring Study.

Review: Cereal grains, legumes and diabetes.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:40 AM   #15
Wayne Riddle
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http://lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:29 AM   #16
Darryl Shaw
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Here's Virginia Messina RD's review of The Vegetarian Myth - link.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:46 AM   #17
Steven Low
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That review was terrible.


Also, I'm gonna post the obligatory:

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article...02893/fulltext
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