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Old 10-23-2006, 04:48 PM   #1
Jeremy Jones
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Default IF and Meal Replacement Shakes

I know they are to be avoided

But I am looking for another 'easy' meal that I can drink quickly that will be super efficient and nutrient rich. I find that when I am in a hurry (which is about 98.3% of the time), I end up with crappy foods and I pay the price (It doesn't jive with my IF). I would think that one of the benefits of shakes is that you can make it have exactly the right nutrients and carb/prot/fat balance (if taste isn't the primary objective).

What ingredients / additives can I get to put into a shake to give me a very fast meal that is waaay better than working with 'bad' foods? (I am talking protein powders, fats, whatever)


If I could premix a batch that would be good for a couple days that would be perfect.
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:31 PM   #2
Greg Everett
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I know they are to be avoided
Yes, but that's in an ideal set of circumstances, and that doesn't apply to many of us. I use supplemental protein multiple times a day and there's no way I would be able to do what I do nutritionally without it.

That said, there are a lot of shitty supplements out there, so you do have to be discerning.

I like MRM's Metabolic Whey for a pure protein supplement, although I'd prefer egg protein, but haven't yet found any hydrolyzed. You can dump in a bunch of coconut milk or nut butter to bump up the calorie content. If you want to get some carbs in there too, oatmeal is an easy addition although clearly not the greatest choice in terms of quality, but again, this is not going to be ideal food any way you look at it.

You can also drop in some baking soda to help neutralize the acidity of the shake.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:37 PM   #3
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You can also drop in some baking soda to help neutralize the acidity of the shake.
never thought of that. Cool.

So whey is the only good protein source? (until egg ones get better) Should I worry about the negative aspects of dairy with MRM's whey?
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:29 PM   #4
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Egg is good, but like I said, it's hard to find one that a) doesn't have sucralose or aspartame b) can be taken in large quantities without pooping your drawers.

I don't do any dairy other than MRM whey--I've found no digestive or inflammatory problems with it like I have with other whey products.
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:16 PM   #5
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You can also drop in some baking soda to help neutralize the acidity of the shake.
Hi Greg. Doesn't stomach chyme need to be highly acidic (hydrochloric) to be able to initiate protein digestion. I'm having a hard time understanding the logic of simplistic pH analogies like putting bicarb into medium that is designed to be low pH as somehow helping net acid load. Also I'm not sure of the biochemistry of this but citric acid and ascetic acid leave an alkaline residue or ash when they are metabolized in the human body.

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Old 10-25-2006, 08:56 AM   #6
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stuart - you bring up a couple good points.

yes, protein digestion is initiated in the stomach, which is a very low pH environment--but i believe this is primarily to break whole food proteins into long peptides, i.e. break up collagenous material, etc. Something like 15% of the protein is hydrolyzed in the stomach.

The rest of the digestion occurs in the small intestine with enzymes in an alkaline environment--this is the bulk of the hydrolysis, and gets the protein down to tri and dipeptides and free amino acids.

So, with a hydrolyzed protein supplement, the stomach/adic portion of the digestion is basically unecessary, and so whatever alkalinizing effect the baking soda has on the gastric environment isn't a problem.

As far as the baking soda "neutralizing the acidity" of the protein, this was probably a poor choice of words on my part. "Balance" would have been better--the protein (and oatmeal) has a positive PRAL and the baking soda as a negative PRAL. So it's like eating vegetables with your steak--balancing acid-forming foods with alkaline-forming foods to try to reduce the net acid load of the diet.

this is definitely not my area of expertise, so someone please feel free to correct me if I'm just talking shit.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:25 PM   #7
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Stuart-
My acid/base chemistry always sucked but with citrate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid
And acetate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid
bring a hydrogen ion (H+) to the body and then the carbon skeleton can be metabolized via the Krebs cycle…but I’m unclear ass to HOW that hydrogen ion is removed from action other than being buffered by the bodies store of…well, buffers.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:50 PM   #8
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What about adding a tiny bit of "organic" honey to a shake?

What other types of foods go good in shakes? All I ever end up using is banannas.
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Old 10-27-2006, 11:07 AM   #9
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Stuart-
My acid/base chemistry always sucked but with citrate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid
And acetate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid
bring a hydrogen ion (H+) to the body and then the carbon skeleton can be metabolized via the Krebs cycle…but I’m unclear ass to HOW that hydrogen ion is removed from action other than being buffered by the bodies store of…well, buffers.
Yeah it had me stumped too. Until I read that the hydrogen ions in citric acid (and ascetic acid) are expired in carbonic acid by the lungs. Not just a few either. More than enough to make the net metabolic action of these two acids alkalizing. One article mentioned that you can easily prove this by testing urine ph an hour after consuming either citric or ascetic acid (vinegar) and it will have become more basic. To me, this makes perfect evolutionary sense. Citric acid was (is) a common component of most digestible vegetation. It's no evolutionary mistake that the citric acid metabolic cycle is so important to almost all mammalian metabolism. The power of the kidneys to express excess acidity is indeed limited. But the respiratory potential for excess carbonic acid loss is prodigious. Even an almost imperceptible change in the depth of breathing will substantially alter the amount of carbonic acid expelled. The whole notion of 'on board' buffering of net acidity by alkaline reserves has always struck me as a little simplistic. We are definitely not a closed system. In fact I'd hazard a guess that the reason the kidneys capacity to expel excess acidity is so limited in evolutionary terms is that the potential loss of respiratory carbonic acid was so formidable.
This is not to say that high chloride intakes (in the modern diet either sodium or potassium chloride) are not net acidity problematic, because (in the terminology of your wikipedia source) chlorine bound hydrogen ions are not easily accessible by the carbonic acid cycle. But those in citric acid and ascetic acid are. So if you've got a high protein diet and also a high salt (either sodium or potassium chloride) intake, I can well concede that on board alkaline reserve buffering of the acidity of chlorine is necessary.



While I was researching this I came across a really interesting study on the endurance/power benefits of supplementation with sodium bicarbonate/ potassium bicarb and/or potassium citrate (which just happens to be the result of combining, you guessed it citric acid and potassium bicarbonate). Something to do with mitigating the effects of lactic acid buildup. Do you know anything about this?

Stuart.
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Old 10-27-2006, 11:19 AM   #10
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What about adding a tiny bit of "organic" honey to a shake?

What other types of foods go good in shakes? All I ever end up using is banannas.
All berries, stone fruits (peaches, etc), pineapples, and oranges are some that I've used. You can make some yummy shakes with mixing of fruits, such as orange/pineapple, strawberry/pineapple, peach/orange/pineapple. A load of mixed berries goes down nicely too.
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