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Old 07-11-2008, 06:31 AM   #1
Barry Anderberg
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Default Considering paleo

If I'm strength training three times a week (Starting Strength) and eating a paleo diet, aren't I going to eventually deplete my glycogen? It seems very difficult to get many carbs if all I am eating are meats, eggs, fruits and vegetables. Fructose from fruit cannot replenish muscle glycogen, right?

What I really want to know is what the minimum amount of carbs I need to eat to avoid glycogen depletion is. I don't want my training to suffer or my strength to go down.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:03 AM   #2
Mike ODonnell
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Unless you are trying to get a BB look....you won't deplete as much glycogen as you think you will do. Most workouts can recover with whole food carbs anywhere from 60-100g of carbs. (along with any other daily carb intake you have). You have to find the number that works for you....and get's you through a workout. Worst case...take a day off on the weekends and eat more carbs....you will replenish.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:03 AM   #3
Liam Dougherty Springer
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There is a article fron last months Performance Menu specificaly on glycogen replenishment. Some fruits are higher in Glucose than you would think. I also have thought about veggie juicing post work out not whole foods but (shrug).
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:11 AM   #4
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Hey. I just checked about which issue that article was in and it turns out it is in the free download issue. Just go to back issues and search for Glycogen. Can't suggest PM strongly enough.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:31 AM   #5
Derek Weaver
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Adding in some yams or sweet potatoes never hurt...

Plus, don't underestimate the importance of keeping liver glycogen filled.

Good things happen when the liver is in a good place.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Good things happen when the liver is in a good place.
True that!! Eat some Fruit!
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:29 PM   #7
Barry Anderberg
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Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
True that!! Eat some Fruit!
Definitely.

However, if insulin is anabolic then this would seem to speak against doing a strict paleo diet when seeking to build muscle.

Unless the paleo diet makes you so insulin sensitive that the paleo carbs you do get are sufficient..

I don't know.. I think I need to go back to school and get a second degree in sports nutrition.

Edit: Looks like you replied to my comment on your blog.. thanks.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:42 PM   #8
Steven Low
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No. Insulin is not the only anabolic hormone and certainly not the strongest (growth hormone and testosterone anyone?). Insulin is actually not that much more preferential to muscle tissue over adipose tissue at least non-post workout so if you're always spiking your insulin with carbs you're also generally adding to your fat stores. The problems with insulin and carbohydrate intake are fairly well documented especially in excess... aka obesity in America. In fact, insulin knockout mice do just fine and actually tend to have longer lifespans than their counterparts.

(p.s. this is a very very very simplified view and is actually more complex than this & different in some cases but I think you get the point).

Basically, don't worry about insulin too much and it's better to keep it on the low side. As long as you're eating well, getting enough sleep and lifting heavy you will gain muscle mass and strength. Keep it simple.


Consider brushing up on exercise physiology (or anatomy & phys stuff) + an overview of hormones in your body from like wikipedia or something. That will help. Either that or read most of the forum posts here, and most of the blogs that some members have in their sigs like Mike's. You will learn a lot.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:58 PM   #9
Barry Anderberg
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I need to steer clear of the body building websites. Layne Norton thinks insulin is the end all be all of muscle building, and recommends a pretty high intake of carbohydrates. I just don't feel right sacrificing health by eating a ship load of carbs for the sole sake of gaining a fractional amount of extra muscle, thus my questions. Reading Good Calories Bad Calories has really caused me to rethink my approach.. as well as Mark's Daily Apple, even though I find Mark's writing style to be obnoxious as hell.

Hey Steven didn't I see you on Strength Mill in the Mark Rippetoe forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
No. Insulin is not the only anabolic hormone and certainly not the strongest (growth hormone and testosterone anyone?). Insulin is actually not that much more preferential to muscle tissue over adipose tissue at least non-post workout so if you're always spiking your insulin with carbs you're also generally adding to your fat stores. The problems with insulin and carbohydrate intake are fairly well documented especially in excess... aka obesity in America. In fact, insulin knockout mice do just fine and actually tend to have longer lifespans than their counterparts.

(p.s. this is a very very very simplified view and is actually more complex than this & different in some cases but I think you get the point).

Basically, don't worry about insulin too much and it's better to keep it on the low side. As long as you're eating well, getting enough sleep and lifting heavy you will gain muscle mass and strength. Keep it simple.


Consider brushing up on exercise physiology (or anatomy & phys stuff) + an overview of hormones in your body from like wikipedia or something. That will help. Either that or read most of the forum posts here, and most of the blogs that some members have in their sigs like Mike's. You will learn a lot.
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Barry Anderberg View Post
Layne Norton thinks insulin is the end all be all of muscle building, and recommends a pretty high intake of carbohydrates.
insulin does put on the lbs....then again most of those guys are puffy and only get lean for shows....and a BB in his 40s I know just had his gallbladder removed in an emergency surgery and is having liver issues....and lost 50lbs in one month.....

so not sure I will be taking any advice on health from bodybuilders anytime soon....
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell : 07-11-2008 at 08:06 PM.
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